This is really useful and interesting, Mike. I've never seen it put so
clearly and succinctly.

Steve

On 11/01/07, Mike Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Despite what I posted earlier, because some people of mentioned bits if
> it,
> I've decided, as one of the ancient mariners
> of this parish. to try to make some sort of summary of what happened.  But
> my memory of it all
> is distinctly partial, in both senses of the word.
>
> I think it must have been about eight or nine years ago that it all
> happened.  At that time this list was privately hosted (
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> or something), and was interfaced to the Usenet group uk.rec.waterways so
> that all postings that appeared on one also appeared on the other.  That
> was
> the root cause of the first problem.
>
> Some of us who came to the interface from the mailing list side didn't
> know
> very much about Usenet.  One of them was a chap called Peter Hardcastle,
> known as Dral.  Another was me.   That was another contributory factor.
>
> The gateway between the two systems had some technical faults which may or
> may not have been curable  -  technical opinion on that point differed at
> the time.  The problem was that threads that went via the mailing list no
> longer threaded properly in Usenet,  which upset some of the people who
> came
> to the combo from the Usenet side.  Vociferous among these was a chap
> called
> Andy Mabbett, a self-appointed net-cop.
>
> The proximate cause of the big row came about as follows.  Dral was then
> in
> process of building an excellent site called "Canal Roots and Routes",
> which
> I believe still exists.
> He used to preview some of his material on the mailing
> list as a sort of beta-test.  As part of this process, he made a visit to
> the BCN which he wrote up
> and posted on the group.  Much of this was very appreciative, but he did
> express regret that some areas of the BCN didn't seem to be cared for by
> the
> local residents.  Somebody else, it may have been Kevin Maslin, asked for
> more details so that he could follow the matter up locally.  Dral
> responded
> in the spirit of the request.
>
> At this point, Mabbett, who at that time managed a Birmingham Council web
> site,
> cross-posted Dral's reply, out of context, to the Birmingham Local
> newsgroup, not one of the most polite in the Usenet community.  As a
> self-appointed netcop, he should have known better than that, in my view.
> The criticisms there, without the context, annoyed some of the Birmingham
> group members who responded vigorously, and in some case abusively, both
> on
> the two newsgroups and, in some cases by direct e-mail to Dral.
>
> Dral went ballistic  -  justifiably in my view  -   and that's where the
> row
> started, and went on for ages.  I sided with Dral as I was also trialling
> material for my website and shared his strong concerns about copyright,
> which some Usenet enthusiasts, Maggot included, seemed to think didn't
> apply
> to Usenet.
>
> That was phase 1.
>
> Alongside this was another row about the quantity of off-topic wibble that
> was carried on the combined list & group.  If you think what we've seen
> recently is a bit much, you should have seen it as it was in those days!
> This is where the pub analogy, either recalled or re-invented here
> recently,
> came into play.  It may have been the late Jeff Dennison who launched it,
> or
> my memory might be playing tricks.
>
> A number of people hated the war and left the group/list combo.  Some of
> them set up an invitation-only mailing list (a) to get away from the
> Dral/Mabbett abuse and (b) to be a place where they could chat off-topic
> without offending others. I joined it a bit later.  That list still exists
> and is still invitation-only.
>
> Then came phase 2.
>
> The arrangements for hosting the mailing list fell through for a reason I
> don't remember  -  perhaps our host was changing server and couldn't
> afford
> the space for the list on his new one. Or perhaps he used that excuse to
> escape from the row.   A new arrangement was found on a server run by
> Bruce
> Peckett, who decided, probably wisely, that to continue the gateway
> between
> the mailing list and the newsgroup was either impossible to achieve
> without
> the failings of the old arrangements, or at the least was to difficult to
> do.  That's when the split between the two systems took place.
>
> Bruce was hosting a number of mailing lists at the time, and felt it best
> to
> set up a sort of code of conduct for them all.  Nobody objected at the
> time,
> until David Long (one of the people involved in the original setting up of
> uk.rec.waterways) offended against one of Bruce's rules (I forget in what
> way) and Bruce suspended him from the list. A number of members felt that
> Bruce had gone over the top.  This provoked another round of
> flame war and lost us more subscribers.
>
> That's as I remember things.  Others will probably remember them
> differently.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply via email to