On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Tharindu Mathew <thari...@wso2.com> wrote: > A small suggestion about the wizard: I always thought Work In Progress made > no sense. You should make it clear. Example of better wording: Save as Draft
Yeah, true, "Save as Draft" seems more proper. Cheers, Anjana. > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Anjana Fernando <anj...@wso2.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Azeez, >> >> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Afkham Azeez <az...@wso2.com> wrote: >> > 1. It is a best practice to give an indication to the user where he is >> > in >> > the wizard. e.g. Step 1 of 10 >> > 2. Cannot go back to the very first screen from the 2nd screen >> >> There was a fundamental problem on how the UI code was written, and >> that is why this was not fixed in the last release. But it was fixed >> sometime back by Amani and now available in the trunk. >> >> > 3. The headings change. So this is not really a wizard, but it is >> > supposed >> > to be a wizard >> >> Will look into how headings should be handled. >> >> > I can go on... look at some of the attached screenshots. >> >> If I'm not mistaken, that situation is also fixed, it would be better >> if you can give the steps to reproduce it. >> >> > Please don't try to be defensive. The first step towards fixing a >> > problem is >> > accepting that there is a problem. I know that people could get attached >> > to >> > their code and their projects, but what needs to be improved, needs to >> > be >> > improved. >> >> I may be the last person to defend the DS UI code :) .. where I always >> wanted to do a re-write of it. I was simply defending the structure of >> our wizard, because so far no one really complained on the flow of it, >> and personally I found it intuitive, but I know that is just my own >> opinion and not necessarily the majority. >> >> At the end, just want to say, I know you really busy there, thank you >> for your time. >> >> Cheers, >> Anjana. >> >> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Afkham Azeez <az...@wso2.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Anjana, >> >> Please take a look at some of the wizards that you have been using in >> >> your >> >> day to day work, and then look at the DS wizard from a complete >> >> outsider's >> >> point of view. You will realize what is wrong with it. If a wizard is >> >> not >> >> the correct way to do this, so be it, we have to find a better >> >> solution. >> >> While doing the demos, I'm not happy with showing our wizard. It >> >> doesn't >> >> flow well, and some views are cluttered, and not intuitive. If you are >> >> doing >> >> wizards, there is a way wizards work. When it doesn't work as a true >> >> wizard, >> >> it hurts the user experience. We need to work on improving this. The >> >> functionality & backend look really solid, but the user experience is >> >> not so >> >> good. Let us not repeat the same mistakes the Eclipse IDE developers >> >> are >> >> making. >> >> Azeez >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Anjana Fernando <anj...@wso2.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Azeez, >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Afkham Azeez <az...@wso2.com> wrote: >> >>> > In most Wizard pages, you see just (+ Add 'Foo') & other links and >> >>> > that >> >>> > takes you out of the wizard, which is a very bad practice when it >> >>> > comes >> >>> > to >> >>> > using wizards. As a start, you could make those appear on the same >> >>> > page >> >>> > within a div. Also, from some portions in the wizard, you cannot >> >>> > come >> >>> > back. >> >>> > We could setup a webex session if necessary, and I can provide my >> >>> > comments >> >>> > on each page. >> >>> >> >>> In some of the pages, I'm not sure how it would be practical to stay >> >>> in the same page for those "+Add" actions. For instance, in the adding >> >>> of a new data source, we need to go to a new page, or the current page >> >>> will be cluttered too much. Specially in the to be released DSS, the >> >>> new data source option need a separate page, since it has plenty of >> >>> fields. Same goes for adding a new query as well. The new query page >> >>> is pretty large and actually QA suggested us to put some of the >> >>> options in the query page in separate pages, mentioning that it will >> >>> improve usability. >> >>> >> >>> Also, can you please point out some places where you cannot come back >> >>> in the wizard pages. And yeah, we can set up a session you requested >> >>> if needed. >> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> Anjana. >> >>> >> >>> > Azeez >> >>> > >> >>> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Anjana Fernando <anj...@wso2.com> >> >>> > wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Hi Azeez, >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Afkham Azeez <az...@wso2.com> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > Can we please hold back the DS release? The DS wizard is not >> >>> >> > there >> >>> >> > yet, >> >>> >> > and >> >>> >> > we can improve this with a little bit more effort. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> We are planning the release for end of Feb, when will you be back >> >>> >> in >> >>> >> SL ? .. Also in the meanwhile, we would appreciate if you can give >> >>> >> some general pointers on the areas of the wizard that can be >> >>> >> improved. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Cheers, >> >>> >> Anjana. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > Thanks >> >>> >> > Azeez >> >>> >> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Afkham Azeez <az...@wso2.com> >> >>> >> > wrote: >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I was thinking about this, and it occurred to me that showing >> >>> >> >> some >> >>> >> >> of >> >>> >> >> the >> >>> >> >> screens inline (instead of moving to a different page) within a >> >>> >> >> div >> >>> >> >> using >> >>> >> >> Javascript magic should greatly enhance the user experience. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Anjana Fernando >> >>> >> >> <anj...@wso2.com> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hi Amila, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for the comments, and sorry for the late reply. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > This is something I have mentioned earlier as well. I am not >> >>> >> >>> > sure >> >>> >> >>> > any >> >>> >> >>> > one >> >>> >> >>> > have paid a real attention to it. >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > The problem with current DSS is that it try to provide every >> >>> >> >>> > thing >> >>> >> >>> > from >> >>> >> >>> > one >> >>> >> >>> > wizard. Rather you can have >> >>> >> >>> > different set of menus like data first, data service, >> >>> >> >>> > contract >> >>> >> >>> > first >> >>> >> >>> > etc .. >> >>> >> >>> > as a top menu and show only the relevant >> >>> >> >>> > things at the wizard which make less confuse to the user. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Yes, we have been paying attention to your ideas very much :) >> >>> >> >>> .. >> >>> >> >>> And >> >>> >> >>> this was also suggested by Sumedha sometime back, and at the >> >>> >> >>> moment, >> >>> >> >>> we do have separate menus for the classical data services >> >>> >> >>> wizard, >> >>> >> >>> the >> >>> >> >>> contract first approach, and the data first approach, and also >> >>> >> >>> scheduled tasks for data services, these functionalities are >> >>> >> >>> clearly >> >>> >> >>> broken down. And our next aim is to add more functionalities >> >>> >> >>> specially >> >>> >> >>> for the data first and the contract first approaches to be used >> >>> >> >>> to >> >>> >> >>> rapidly create data services based on some predefined use >> >>> >> >>> cases. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> >> >>> Anjana. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > In CEP also we had a wizard like structure. But what we found >> >>> >> >>> > there >> >>> >> >>> > was >> >>> >> >>> > it >> >>> >> >>> > does not show the big picture to the user and >> >>> >> >>> > he is lost in going forward and back word. If you can break >> >>> >> >>> > down >> >>> >> >>> > the >> >>> >> >>> > DSS >> >>> >> >>> > functionalities in terms of use cases then you can have more >> >>> >> >>> > compact >> >>> >> >>> > views >> >>> >> >>> > with each use cases rather than long wizards. >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > thanks, >> >>> >> >>> > Amila. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> If you compare DSS to some other large data integration >> >>> >> >>> >> products >> >>> >> >>> >> which >> >>> >> >>> >> has a richer UI, you will notice that DSS have the most >> >>> >> >>> >> simple >> >>> >> >>> >> UI, >> >>> >> >>> >> which provides the most functionality/customisability. Hope >> >>> >> >>> >> you >> >>> >> >>> >> wont >> >>> >> >>> >> see this as me giving excuses for not making the current UI >> >>> >> >>> >> better >> >>> >> >>> >> :), >> >>> >> >>> >> rather, we will definitely look into your ideas and consider >> >>> >> >>> >> the >> >>> >> >>> >> improvements. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> Thanks and Regards, >> >>> >> >>> >> Anjana. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Afkham Azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> <az...@wso2.com> >> >>> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> > When it comes to a wizard, there is an expected flow. You >> >>> >> >>> >> > should >> >>> >> >>> >> > be >> >>> >> >>> >> > able >> >>> >> >>> >> > to >> >>> >> >>> >> > move forward or back, and screen that take you out of the >> >>> >> >>> >> > wizard >> >>> >> >>> >> > should >> >>> >> >>> >> > be >> >>> >> >>> >> > avoided. Those are something you should avoid according to >> >>> >> >>> >> > the >> >>> >> >>> >> > wizard >> >>> >> >>> >> > paradigm. If you go through the DS wizard, it is obvious >> >>> >> >>> >> > to >> >>> >> >>> >> > the >> >>> >> >>> >> > developers >> >>> >> >>> >> > who wrote it, not to the users. One way in which people >> >>> >> >>> >> > improve >> >>> >> >>> >> > usability is >> >>> >> >>> >> > give a set of things to be done by new users, and watch >> >>> >> >>> >> > what >> >>> >> >>> >> > they >> >>> >> >>> >> > do. >> >>> >> >>> >> > Perhaps you guys can watch me doing something and learn >> >>> >> >>> >> > from >> >>> >> >>> >> > the >> >>> >> >>> >> > mistakes I >> >>> >> >>> >> > make. >> >>> >> >>> >> > Thanks >> >>> >> >>> >> > Azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Anjana Fernando >> >>> >> >>> >> > <anj...@wso2.com> >> >>> >> >>> >> > wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Hi Azeez, >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Afkham Azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> >> <az...@wso2.com> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > The wizard is not really a wizard since it does not >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > necessarily >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > follow a >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > flow. Also, if you do things in the wrong order, bad >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > things >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > happen & >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > NPEs >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > fly. These things normally happen at the wrong time; >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > during >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > demos >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > :) >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> I do agree on the UI issues, the DSS UI is very fragile, >> >>> >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >>> >> >> we've >> >>> >> >>> >> >> been planning on rewriting the DSS UI soon. As in, some >> >>> >> >>> >> >> validations >> >>> >> >>> >> >> are missing I guess, for instance, if you just enter an >> >>> >> >>> >> >> url >> >>> >> >>> >> >> of a >> >>> >> >>> >> >> specific page by hand - something in the middle of the >> >>> >> >>> >> >> wizard, >> >>> >> >>> >> >> most >> >>> >> >>> >> >> probably it'll give some unexpected errors. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> But, when you said, 'not following a flow', can you >> >>> >> >>> >> >> elaborate on >> >>> >> >>> >> >> that >> >>> >> >>> >> >> a bit more? .. Because, I was having the impression, the >> >>> >> >>> >> >> current >> >>> >> >>> >> >> DS >> >>> >> >>> >> >> wizard is pretty simple in a way that, it follows the >> >>> >> >>> >> >> below >> >>> >> >>> >> >> flow >> >>> >> >>> >> >> for >> >>> >> >>> >> >> the normal service creation. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Start Service Creation -> Create Data Source(s) -> Create >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Queries >> >>> >> >>> >> >> -> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Create Operation(s) / Resource(s). >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> What kind of a flow are you suggesting? .. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Cheers, >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Anjana. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > -- >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Afkham Azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > http://wso2.com, >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > http://www.apache.org/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> -- >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Anjana Fernando >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Software Engineer >> >>> >> >>> >> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> >>> >> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > -- >> >>> >> >>> >> > Afkham Azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >> >>> >> >>> >> > http://wso2.com, >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> >>> >> >>> >> > email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> >>> >> >>> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> >>> >> >>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> >>> >> >>> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> >> > Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> >>> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> >>> >> Anjana Fernando >> >>> >> >>> >> Software Engineer >> >>> >> >>> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> >>> >> >>> >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> >> Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> >> Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> >>> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> > Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> > Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> >>> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> >>> Anjana Fernando >> >>> >> >>> Software Engineer >> >>> >> >>> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> >>> >> >>> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> >>> Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> >>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >> >>> >> >> Afkham Azeez >> >>> >> >> Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >> >>> >> >> http://wso2.com, >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> >>> >> >> email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> >>> >> >> blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> >>> >> >> twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> >>> >> >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > -- >> >>> >> > Afkham Azeez >> >>> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >> >>> >> > http://wso2.com, >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> >>> >> > email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> >>> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> >>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> >>> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> > Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> Anjana Fernando >> >>> >> Software Engineer >> >>> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> >>> >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> >> Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > Afkham Azeez >> >>> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >> >>> > http://wso2.com, >> >>> > >> >>> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> >>> > email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> >>> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> >>> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> >>> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >>> > >> >>> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> > Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Anjana Fernando >> >>> Software Engineer >> >>> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> >>> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Carbon-dev mailing list >> >>> Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> >>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Afkham Azeez >> >> Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >> >> http://wso2.com, >> >> >> >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> >> email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> >> blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> >> twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >> >> >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Afkham Azeez >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com, >> > >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> > email: az...@wso2.com cell: +94 77 3320919 >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> > >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >> > Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Anjana Fernando >> Software Engineer >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> _______________________________________________ >> Carbon-dev mailing list >> Carbon-dev@wso2.org >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > > > > -- > Regards, > > Tharindu Mathew > Software Engineer, > WSO2 Inc., > http://wso2.com > > _______________________________________________ > Carbon-dev mailing list > Carbon-dev@wso2.org > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > > -- Anjana Fernando Software Engineer WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com lean.enterprise.middleware _______________________________________________ Carbon-dev mailing list Carbon-dev@wso2.org http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev
