Small addition on top of the great advice you already received ... If this is inhouse data with a vertical rotation axis /and/ the images are shown in true orientation (i.e. your beamstop holder really comes in from the top): those "streaks" or overlapped spots on image2 seem to be roughly perpendicular to the rotation axis - so could just be the effect of a long(er) unit cell axis and your (too wide) 1 degree rotation.
Maybe this is not so much a case of overlapping (but distinct) multiple lattices but rather very bad spatial overlap due to unfortnuate crystal orientation and inadequate image width? In which case your intensities at 90 degree to image2 will most likely also be wrong (containing multiple diffraction spots due to the long axis oriented along the beam, i.e. contained within your 1 degree image width). Either orient your crystals differently (longest axis parallel to rotation axis) or use smaller image widths. Or even better: do both ;-) Cheers Clemens On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 10:08:01AM +0200, Andrew Thompson wrote: > Dear Sayan > So much has been said about this already. What struck me, in looking at the > second of your images, is that there is almost certain to be spot overlap (to > the left / centre of the image) and a chance that the correct unit cell may > be larger than the indexing suggests. The lower beam divergence at a > synchrotron, combined with fine sliced images, may tell a different story > about the indexing. > Regards > Andy > > > De: "Sayan Saha" <ssaha43...@gmail.com> > À: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Envoyé: Jeudi 28 Juillet 2022 18:11:54 > Objet: Re: [ccp4bb] Regarding the correct space group identification > > Dear Sir, > > The detector-to-crystal distance was 190 mm. The Oscillation range was 1.0 > degree. Please find attached two diffraction images. > With best regards, > Sayan Saha. > > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 7:31 PM Kay Diederichs < [ > mailto:kay.diederi...@uni-konstanz.de | kay.diederi...@uni-konstanz.de ] > > wrote: > > > Dear Sayan, > > On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 15:12:30 +0530, Sayan Saha < [ > mailto:ssaha43...@gmail.com | ssaha43...@gmail.com ] > wrote: > > >Dear Sir, > > > >1. There are no ice-rings. However, diffraction spots seem to be > >overlapping. This can be seen during the data processing, as the space > >group (C2 or P222) varies even in the consecutive frames. > > spot overlap results in inaccurate intensity values. Inaccurate intensities > result in high Rwork/Rfree. > > Why do the spots overlap? High mosaicity? Detector distance too small? > Oscillation range too high (0.1° is typically adequate)? > > It would be good to see the data, otherwise we can only speculate. > > Space group does not change from one frame to the next. If you use XDS, a > good guide to decide between higher and lower-symmetry space groups is to > compare their ISa values. > > best, > Kay > > > > >2. Crystal packing of C2 and P22121 seem to be similar (please see the > >attached images). > > > >3. Forgot to mention in my previous email that we have already processed > >the data in P1 and MR solution could be found only in P1 (Phaser was used > >with an option in all possible space groups of that point group). > > > >Please let me know if any other information is required. > > > >With best regards, > >Sayan Saha. > > > > > >On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 1:26 PM Schreuder, Herman /DE < > > [ mailto:herman.schreu...@sanofi.com | herman.schreu...@sanofi.com ] > > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Sayan, > >> > >> > >> > >> If a subunit is correctly oriented, but the translation is incorrect, > >> density for a ligand may still show up in the binding site of the protein. > >> It might be that one of the 2-fold axes, you think is crystallographic, is > >> in fact non crystallographic and a few Angstroms away from the > >> crystallographic position. > >> > >> > >> > >> What I would do: > >> > >> 1. Check the images: are there ice-rings or other artifacts that could > >> cause scaling problems that would lead to high Rw/Rf values? In that case, > >> there is not much you can do. > >> 2. Compare the C2 and P22121 solutions: do they have the same overall > >> crystal packing (CS+NCS), or are they different? Do they have the same > >> Rw/Rf values? Can we learn anything from the differences in overall > >> crystal > >> packing? > >> 3. Process, run MR and refine in P1. Do you get lower R-factors? If > >> so, then run Zanuda to find out the real space group. > >> > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Herman > >> > >> > >> > >> *Von:* CCP4 bulletin board < [ mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK | > >> CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK ] > *Im Auftrag von *Sayan > >> Saha > >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2022 08:15 > >> *An:* [ mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK | CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK ] > >> *Betreff:* [ccp4bb] Regarding the correct space group identification > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear All, > >> > >> > >> > >> We have collected home-source X-ray intensity data for a protein at 2.6 > >> Angstrom. The data can be processed in either C2 (a=120, b=80, c=85 and > >> beta=115) or P222 (P22121, a=80, b=85, c=110). MR solution can be obtained > >> in both the space groups. However, the solution can be refined with an > >> Rw/Rf of 29/32% only. The protein is bound to a ligand > >> (co-crystallization) > >> for which a clear density can be observed. > >> > >> > >> > >> Any help and suggestion in this regard would be very helpful. > >> > >> > >> > >> With best regards, > >> > >> Sayan Saha. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > >> [ https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 | > >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ] > >> > > > >######################################################################## > > > >To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > > [ https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 | > > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ] > > > >This message was issued to members of [ http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB | > >www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB ] , a mailing list hosted by [ > >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ | www.jiscmail.ac.uk ] , terms & conditions are > >available at [ https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ | > >https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ ] > > > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > [ https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 | > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ] > > This message was issued to members of [ http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB | > www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB ] , a mailing list hosted by [ > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/ | www.jiscmail.ac.uk ] , terms & conditions are > available at [ https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ | > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ ] > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > [ https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 | > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ] > > ######################################################################## > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing > list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ -- *-------------------------------------------------------------- * Clemens Vonrhein, Ph.D. vonrhein AT GlobalPhasing DOT com * Global Phasing Ltd., Sheraton House, Castle Park * Cambridge CB3 0AX, UK www.globalphasing.com *-------------------------------------------------------------- ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 This message was issued to members of www.jiscmail.ac.uk/CCP4BB, a mailing list hosted by www.jiscmail.ac.uk, terms & conditions are available at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/
