On 7/26/2016 7:17 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
On Sunday, July 24th, 2016 at 14::29:59 -0700, Don North wrote:
>On 7/24/2016 8:06 AM, william degnan wrote:
>On Jul 24, 2016 8:58 AM, "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfined...@compsys.to> wrote:
>On Wednesday, July 20th, 2016 at 18:02:44 - 0400, william degnan wrote:
Is there a minimum memory requirement for RT-11 v5? I was discussing with
Ray Fantini about it today, unsure...anyone know if 16K will work (from
000000).
Bill
You need to be more specific! Starting with V05.00 of RT-11 in 1983,
there were a total of 17 versions released up to V05.07 in 1998, including
sub-versions V05.01B, V05.01C, and V05.04A to V05.04G of RT-11.
Up until V05.05 of RT-11, RT11SJ.SYS required the least memory which
was replaced with RT11SB.SYS for V05.06 and V05.07 of RT-11.
Attempts to boot from RT11SJ.SYS under V05.00 of RT-11 with 24K
bytes of memory were successful. Attempts to boot with 16K bytes of
memory were unsuccessful. An RK05 was used as the disk drive since
it is close to the smallest device driver. The answer to your question
about using 16K bytes of memory is NO for all versions of RT-11 starting with
V05.00 or RT-11.
Attempts to boot from RT11SJ.SYS under V04.00 of RT-11 with 24K
bytes of memory were successful. Attempts to boot with 16K bytes of
memory were also successful. An RK05 was used as the disk drive. The
error message "Insufficient memory" is displayed, but some useful work
might be done with just 16K bytes of memory. However, you did not
ask if useful work being done was one of the criteria?
NOTE that I used the Ersatz-11 emulator to check the above details,
so there might be a difference with actual hardware.
If you have any more questions, please ask.
Jerome Fine
Thanks for the details. I had been trying to boot rt-11 v5.3 on a 16k core
11/40 using RL11 (rl02) and it did not work. The system was unable to
complete the initialization. CPU diagnostics passed, I could load BASIC
papertape. RL11 working correctly. In this context I posted my question.
After I posted my message here I loaded up simh and emulated an 11 with
32k. RT-11 v5.3 disk boots. When I re-built the system and reduced to
16k, I could not boot, bombed.
One thing to remember is 16KW in a pdp11 is not the same thing that simh
refers to when one sets the CPU to 16K. WWW do not all make this
distinction clearly. I get it, just making this comment for future readers
of this thread.
Bill
RT-11 v5.03 single job monitor boots fine and runs in just 32KB (16KW) of
memory.
You need to be more specific about how you specify the memory configuration
(words vs bytes).
DEC routinely specified everything in KW (words) but most users and tools use
KB (bytes) nowadays.
Note that to force RT11SJ (vs RT11FB) to boot on the below image I booted
first using FB
in a larger memory configuration, did a:
COPY/BOOT DL1:RT11SJ.SYS DL1:
to force it to boot using the SJ monitor the next time.
NOTE that while the above command is REQUIRED to perform a
hardware boot (from boot ROMs on real hardware or from
within the SimH emulator. Starting at least with V04.00 of RT-11,
a software boot (which uses DUP.SAV) is supported from within
RT-11 from within any disk (with the files required to support being
a System Disk) to boot any specific monitor file (in this example
RT11SJ.SYS) using the RT-11 command:
BOOT DL1:RT11SJ
Bill's original issue is he wanted to boot RT-11 v5 on a 16KW 11/40 system, so
the only
option that would work would be to boot directly to RT11SJ. Booting into XM or
FB
and then rebooting into SJ via executing the BOOT command is not possible in
such
a memory configuration.
Thus even if there has been the RT-11 command to set up a
boot block on a specific disk for a specific RT-11 monitor
file, it is possible to override the boot block and use any
qualified RT-11 monitor file via an RT-11 software boot
(which uses DUP.SAV).
It is also possible from within RT-11 to force the use of the Primary
Boot Code (which is placed in block zero via the COPY/BOOT
command) via the RT-11 command:
BOOT/FOREIGN DL1:
If the user includes a specific monitor in the command:
BOOT/FOREIGN DL1:RT11FB
then the specified monitor file is ignored and the boot code in
block zero of DL1: (placed there via the COPY/BOOT command)
is used instead along with the actual monitor file that had been
specified during the COPY/BOOT command.
Don
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 4065f47f
This portion of my reply contains many questions. If possible,
answers to all of them would be appreciated, not just the first
question.
Is this the latest version of SimH? Also, is is possible to support
a VT100 display. I have heard that telnet can be used, but I have
never been able to do so. Since I always use the RT-11 SL:
(Single Line Editor) device driver to support a command stack,
it is essential to support a VT100 display, etc. in order to use
the ARROW keys to move the cursor around. Is it possible
to support VT100 escape sequences when SimH is being used?
If so, how is that done in general and what specific programs
are required along with the specific commands to implement?
I would need to know how to do this from a 64-bit Windows 10
point of view since that is the only system that I will have available
after the Windows 98SE system that I currently use to run RT-11
is no longer available. As a default, Ersatz-11 supports running
via the Win32 variant under a 64-bit Windows 10 system.
This was done using a relatively recent SIMH commit (ie within the last
week or so). So it is about the latest version of SIMH available.
As to the other questions, I only use SIMH in basic terminal mode, so
I can't answer any of the emulated VT100 questions.
As to your second point, my usage of SIMH is via compiling it for the CYGWIN 32b
environment running on a Windows 7 64b system. So all my usage is thru the
CYGWIN command window, or sometimes thru a telnet (via TeraTerm).
My understanding is that sometime 'soon' Windows 10 will be getting an Ubuntu
Linux subsystem so that it will run compiled linux images directly. So you will
get
a linux command line terminal in a window and can run images directly. So
theoretically a precompiled SIMH distribution for Ubuntu linux could be
downloaded
and run with no compilation (or porting to Windows) necessary. At least this is
my understanding at this point, I haven't paid too much attention because I
expect
to be on Windows 7 64b until the turn of the next century. And then I will
decide if
I want to upgrade to Windows 42 256b, or not. :-)
CPU 11/34, FPP, idle disabled, autoconfiguration enabled
32KB
NOTE: ctrl-E to exit to SIMH monitor
sim> boot rl1
RT-11SJ (S) V05.03
.sho all
If I remember correctly, the above RT-11 command may be incorrect.
I seem to remember that the following output is displayed as a result of
the RT-11 command:
SHOW CONFIGURATION
unless, of course, the rest of the display was omitted and there was
much more actually output.
The above command is correct for RT-11. I just cut off the bottom part
of the output as it was irrelevant for this post, as the only relevant issue
was the fact that RT11SJ v5.3 will boot and run in a 16KW memory size.
RT-11SJ (S) V05.03
Booted from DL1:RT11SJ
USR is set SWAP
EXIT is set SWAP
KMON is set NOIND
TT is set NOQUIET
ERROR is set ERROR
SL is set OFF
EDIT is set KED
KMON nesting depth is 3
PDP 11/34 Processor
32KB of memory
FP11 Hardware Floating Point Unit
Extended Instruction Set (EIS)
Memory Management Unit
60 Cycle System Clock
Jerome Fine
