> The CCL 4T1427 key, which is NOT what Mike needs, would be cut on an
> Ilco S1003A blank, cuts 1427 bow-to-tip.
>
> The CAT99 key I see referenced in the list archives (might open a cab
> back door) would be on an Ilco S1000V, cuts 33335 bow-to-tip.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
I dunno what all thathe means
Q: Do you WANT to know what all thathe means?
I am offering to
.look thru shoe box of keys I Ave one if the thin mx processors do not
temember what number but I know Keyes not in it... I used to come home
after a hard day with computers and if I had weird keys 30 plus years
ago they went into a box or plastic bag..
So, YOU are the guy who always walked off with the keys at the end of the
day, and never brought them back.
Well, he provided complete description of what to look for.
He described in industry terms exactly what two keys are, to the
extent that a competent locksmith could make them without having seen the
originals.
The first part is which keyblank - what will fit into the keyhole. While
a machinist could mill keys from a solid piece of brass, the description
required is most easily handled by simply specifiying which commercial
keyblank to use. Ilco is the largest supplier, to it is customary to
specify the Ilco number. (like chip numbers) If you use a different
supplier, then you need an appropriate cross-reference.
Next are the actual cuts made to the blank.
For a given application, there are standards for the "depth and spacing",
how far apart the cuts are, where the first cut is, and how deep the cuts
are. That could be specified as measurements, but a competent locksmith
has a "depth and spacings" database in which to look up the placement and
depths for a given application.
Cuts are typically listed from the bow to the tip. (The bow is what you
hold, the tip goes into the keyhole). An exception is Best, which is TIP
indexed. Non-locksmiths identify keys by the shape of the bow, which is,
of course, irrelevant.
Cuts are specified numerically, starting with zero or one being the
shallowist cut. (Q: Can you explain why some computers number sectors
from zero, and some number from one?) For a given application, there will
be anywhere from 2 to 10 different depths of cuts. So, one of his
examples has four moderate cuts and then one deeper one.
His other example has a very shallow cut, a moderate one, a shallow one,
and then a deep one. If you LOOK at the cuts of a key, rather than
habitually blank out with, "it's just incomprehensible random
mountaintops", you can SEE whether a key had cuts that would fit that
description. BTW, the mountain tops are irrelevant, what matters is the
depths of the valleys between them.
Notice that each valley has a flat area on the bottom (like Yosemite
valley). Thus, if you move the key in or out 1/4 mm, it doesn't change
the depths.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed via cctalk wrote:
EEEK! bad cell phone typing!
OK anyway I was under the assumption that the hp keys would have
certain number on them depending on what they fit?
If I am wrong then unless I have a photo this group of old keys
will be of no use.
Just a thought. Ed#
Sure, every key has a number. Sometimes it is stamped on the key,
sometimes it isn't. Is every floppy disk labelled with what machine it
goes with? Or its contents?
When it is labelled, the label is almost never the model of computer. Do
you know what an XX2247 key fits?
(Q: Is an 8272 chip marked with what it is for?)
The label may or may not be the depths of the cuts. New Schlage keys (not
duplicates) are stamped with their cuts - look at a few!
But, just as often, the cut is a seemingly random number, which doesn't
tell you anything until you look it up in a "Code Book", which is a simple
locksmith database where the key number indexes a list of the cuts for the
key. (XX2247 is NOT the depths of the cuts. But if you look it up in the
right Code Book, you can find out the cuts.
Your car keys (particularly old ones) might have a number stamped on them,
or there might have been a paper tag on them when you bought your new car.
If you save that number, then a locksmith can make a new key when you lose
yours. (Car owners normally never save that info!)
"Code Cutting" is the process of making a key from the key number. Some
municipalities have restrictions on doing it, ranging from no restrictions
to outright prohibition, but usually mostly of the form of
proving/convincing the locksmith that you OWN the lock in question,
and have the right to have a key to it. (carry the machine into the
locksmith shop, or a letter of authorization on business letterhead, etc.)
There is no LOCKSMITH at Home Depot. You need to find a REAL
locksmith, who has a suitable selection of blanks (hardware stores no
longer do), and who has suitable equipment for cutting a key by code.
That is either a key machine that can be set to preset depths, or in
crudest form, a set of Depth&Space keys for that application, where he
can copy the appropriate cuts.
Start by sorting your heap of random keys. (It is not a "collection"
until you sort it; a jar full of change is not a "coin collection").
Sort by which blank, and then group any duplicates. Ilco, and other
aftermarket blanks, usually have the blank number embossed on the key.
Since each manufacturer may have their own numbers (8272A V upd765), you
may need to actually look at the shapes of the grooves down the sides of
the keys. (Tip: at the bow of the key, where a milled groove becomes
shallower, the shape of the notch is a handy way to see what the actual
shape of the groove is).
Amateur locksmithing is an easy hobby to get started in, with an endless
amount of skill to acquire.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
