Den ons 25 juni 2025 kl 08:04 skrev Steve Lewis via cctalk < [email protected]>:
> Ah yes, it was the MAT features that the stock 9830 lacked (without an > expansion ROM slotted into the side), likewise with STRING support. > > > As for the Apple II being a first boot-to-BASIC microcomputer... Maybe. > Story goes that Chuck Peddle pulled all nighters getting the earliest PET > ready for CES in January 1977 (the one with a wooden case), which included > a boot-to-BASIC ROM - and per a VCF presentation by Leonard Tramiel (IIRC), > this (now archived into a vault) prototype went on tour over to Europe > also. Apple followed suit by mid-year (around May or June), but with > INTEGER (only) BASIC. So while the PET had technically made sales earlier > (at the CES show in January), from what I've read Apple II's were first to > actually get delivered into customer hands. > > > And good find of the HP9830 HP journal, I do recall coming across that in > the past, and the price sheet near the end settles it for me (although > that's the very end Dec 1972, so might be a little unclear exactly when > deliveries happened -- I believe it was the same for the Altair? the Jan > article was actually available Dec 1974, but orders still didn't arrive > till a few months later into 1975?). The Wang 2200 was around mid-1973 (as > a desktop boot to BASIC system, initially with that clunky external CPU and > external PSU -- but a decent multi-row screen). > Obviously hard to tell exactly when deliveries happened now more than 50 years ago. But I am thinking that HP was a whole different company compared to Altair. Found some ads: Ad at page 27. https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronic-Design/1973/Electronic-Design-V21-N03-1973-0201.pdf Ebay listing (ad claimed to be from 1972 - same picture as above) https://www.ebay.com/itm/144316234023 One also has to keep in mind that big chunks of the technology behind the 9830 already was in use in the HP9810 that was introduced in 1971. Exactly the same CPU boards. The same memory technology. Another, IMHO, interesting "Boot-to-BASIC" system from the seventies (1975) is the Tektronix 4051. Basically they took many ideas from a HP9830 or the like and used a (rather slow) MC6800 and paired it with Tektronix DVST technology. The result was a graphics capable personal computer. Not sure if there was anything similar around previously. The Imlac PDS-1 wasn't BASIC as far as I understand. https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/4051 > > > There was a BASIC for one of the Intel 8008 systems in 1974, but I don't > think any of them were boot-to-BASIC. > The Datapoint 2200 had BASIC as well. Not in ROM though (there are no ROM in it...) . Not sure when this software was introduced. BASIC is listed in the 1975 catalog but not the 1972 catalog. /Mattis > > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 2:50 AM Tony Duell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 5:19 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > We had an operational HP9830 last year at VCF SW (with the attached > > > printer, it is a wonderful system). While it does "boot to BASIC", as > I > > > recall one expansion cartridge is necessary to support some additional > > > keywords (like possibly the TRIG functions or some certain operations). > > > > Trig functions (and floating point numbers/variables) are standard on > > the HP9830. As a aside, the HP9810 and HP9820 calculators (related > > machines in that they used the same bit-serial processor) did need an > > extra ROM module for the trig functions > > > > There are many expansion ROM modules for the HP9830, including : > > > > String Variables. Without this you can print string constants (to > > label inputs and outputs. for example) but nothing more. This ROM adds > > the ability to store and manipulate character strings in variables > > > > Extended I/O : Essential if you want to use any I/O devices other than > > the printer and cassette drive, really. Allows binary I/O, use of HPIB > > (with the appropriate interface), etc > > > > Matrices : Adds the MAT statements that were present in original BASIC > > and missing in most microcomputer versions. This ROM for the HP9830 is > > surprising common in my experience. > > > > -tony > > >
