On 29/09/2026 18:22, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 2026-09-28 4:45 p.m., Jim Davis via cctalk wrote:
It's better than it's 2+2=5 (for large values of 2) and reporting the
moon is made of green cheese days.
last week, In a mildly pissed session,
We/i/it did a sketch of an analog tensor cell, just op amps and
floating gates
Digital on the in and out, but a 1M^2 cells in the core. AI's agree,
It looks good.
Give it a try, Promise you won't get your hand blown off playing with
improvised explosives.
And how soon will ****** start with hidden charges for AI service?
Normal google searches seem just skim off top five sites and repeat
from them.
What if I want to find all the computers made in Eastern Europe
between 1958 and 1975 18 to 30 bits wide, and the data translated to
English.
When a AI can do that let me know.
Oddly enough I've been compiling a list of non-power-of-two machines
and Ai does a good (or at least credible) job of turning web pages I
don't understand into ones I think mostly match DeepL and Google Translate.
Here's a starting list. I've not checked it but a few of the machine son
there (like some of the Odra ones) are real (in the sense that I've
independently found info about them, not that I've ever seen them ...
but then I've never seen a PDP-1 either).
Now I have to decide whether the Dnepr-1 counts as 26 bits for my list
... should parity/sign count?? Oh, and I was missing a 29-bit example
... so more checking to do (you never know, it might have imagined it!)
Antonio
ChatGPT
| Country | Computer | Date | Width |
English description / notes
|
| ------- | -------------- | ----------: | --------------------: |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| USSR | **M-4** | 1961 | **23-bit** arithmetic |
Real-time radar-control computer; used 23-bit fixed-point numbers. RAM
stored 24-bit numbers and program ROM 30-bit words. ([Computer
Museum][1]) |
| USSR | **M4M** | 1962 | **23-bit** arithmetic |
Second machine of the M-4 family, produced in 1962; same 23-bit
arithmetic architecture. ([Computer Museum][1])
|
| USSR | **M4-2M** | 1964 onward | **29-bit** |
High-performance real-time control computer; 29-bit instruction/constant
words and 29-bit main-memory words. Produced at Zagorsk for about 15
years. ([Computer Museum][1]) |
| USSR | **Dnepr** | 1961–1971 | **26-bit** |
General-purpose process-control computer, developed in Ukraine. Its
designers deliberately chose a 26-bit machine word as sufficient for
process-control calculations. ([glushkov.su][2]) |
| USSR | **Ural-11** | 1965–1975 | **24-bit** | First
of the Ural-11/14/16 compatible family; fixed- and floating-point
arithmetic and alphanumeric processing. 123 produced. ([Computer
Museum][3]) |
| USSR | **Ural-14** | 1965–1974 | **24-bit** |
Intermediate Ural model; addressed word 24 bits, with optional 48-bit
arithmetic. 201 produced. ([Computer Museum][4])
|
| USSR | **Ural-16** | 1967– | **24-bit** |
Senior member of the Ural-11/14/16 family. The family used the same
24-bit basic architecture. ([Computer Museum][5])
|
| Poland | **ZAM-21** | 1965 | **24-bit** |
Experimental transistorised computer for numerical/scientific computing.
Three machines were produced. ([Pismo Hebrajskie][6])
|
| Poland | **ZAM-41** | 1966–1970 | **24-bit** | Large
second-generation transistor computer for data processing; 24-bit words,
24- or 48-bit numbers. 16 produced. ([Pismo Hebrajskie][7])
|
| Poland | **ODRA 1204** | 1967–1972 | **24-bit** |
Second-generation transistor computer developed and manufactured by
ELWRO. 179 produced. ([Pismo Hebrajskie][8])
|
| Poland | **ODRA 1304** | 1969/1970 | **24-bit** |
Polish computer compatible with the ICL 1900 series; pilot series in
1969 and serial production from 1970. ([ResearchGate][9])
|
| Poland | **ODRA 1305** | 1970 | **24-bit** |
Third-generation ELWRO computer based on the ICL 1900 architecture;
24-bit words. ([Software Preservation Group][10])
|
| Poland | **ODRA 1325** | early 1970s | **24-bit** |
Third-generation ODRA 1300-series machine; specification gives 16/32K
24-bit words. ([https://historiainformatyki.pl][11])
|
| Romania | **DACICC-200** | 1968 | **24-bit** |
Romanian-designed and manufactured computer; 24-bit fixed-point words,
with 37-bit mantissa + 10-bit exponent for floating point.
([ictp.acad.ro][12]) |
[1]: https://computer-museum.ru/english/m4.htm?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"M-4, M4M, M4-2M and M4-3M Control Computers. Russian Virtual Computer
Museum"
[2]:
https://glushkov.su/eng/nauchnaia-deiatelnost-vm-glushkova?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"Scientific activity of V.M. Glushkov"
[3]:
https://www.computer-museum.ru/english/ural_11.php?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"Electronic Digital Computer Ural-11 (Урал-11). Russian Virtual Computer
Museum"
[4]:
https://computer-museum.ru/english/ural_14.php?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"Electronic Digital Computer Ural-14 (Урал-14). Russian Virtual Computer
Museum"
[5]:
https://computer-museum.ru/english/ural_11.php?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"Electronic Digital Computer Ural-11 (Урал-11). Russian Virtual Computer
Museum"
[6]: https://xn--meb.pisz.pl/ZAM-21?utm_source=chatgpt.com "ZAM-21 -
Encyklopedia internetowa"
[7]: https://www.xn--meb.pisz.pl/ZAM-41?utm_source=chatgpt.com "ZAM-41 -
Encyklopedia internetowa"
[8]: https://www.xn--meb.pisz.pl/Odra_1204?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Odra
1204 - Encyklopedia internetowa"
[9]:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290997919_The_History_Present_State_and_Future_of_Information_Technology?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"(PDF) The History, Present State and Future of Information Technology"
[10]:
https://softwarepreservation.computerhistory.org/prolog/warsaw/doc/Kluz301niak-The%20Marseille%20Interpreter%20-%20a%20personal%20perspective-1984.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"The 'Marseille Interpreter' -"
[11]:
https://historiainformatyki.pl/skan.php?doc_id=395&for_download=1&type=pdf&utm_source=chatgpt.com
"ODRA
1325
Jednostka Centralna
Central Processor"
[12]: https://ictp.acad.ro/ro/dacicc-200/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
"DACICC-200 (1968) - primul calculator cu sistem de operare şi
compilator, cel mai puternic calculator construit în România"
DeepSeek
| Country | Computer Model | Year(s) | Word Size (bits) | Notes |
| :--- | :--- | :--- | :--- | :--- |
| **Soviet Union** | Argon-1 | 1969 | 24 | Vehicle-based computer,
fixed-point numbers |
| **Soviet Union** | Radon | 1964 | 24 (command) / 20 (operand) |
Dual-machine system, single-address instruction set |
| **Soviet Union** | Ural-11 | 1966 | 24 | General-purpose computer,
fixed-point binary-decimal numbers |
| **Poland** | ZAM-21 | 1961–1964 | 24 | Experimental transistor
computer, used for calculations and data processing |
| **Poland** | ZAM-41 | 1961 | 24 | Transistor computer for data
processing, 16 units produced |
| **Poland** | Odra 1001 | 1960–1961 | 18 | Vacuum-tube computer, 2048
words of magnetic drum memory |
| **Poland** | Odra 1204 | 1966 | 24 | Transistor computer, 4K–64K words
of core memory |
| **Poland** | Odra 1304 | 1970–1973 | 24 | Second-generation transistor
computer, developed by Elwro |
| **Hungary** | EMG-830 | 1968–1969 | 24 | Second-generation transistor
computer, 25,000 operations/second |
| **Yugoslavia** | CER-10 | 1963 | 30 | First computer developed in
SFRY, 4096 words of core memory |
Gemini
Between **1958 and 1975**, computer developments in Eastern Europe and
the Soviet Union utilized word-addressed architectures with word sizes
falling into the **18-bit to 30-bit** range. During this era, 24-bit
architectures were particularly common for scientific computing,
industrial automation, and mainframes.
Below is a categorized list of computer systems developed in Eastern
Bloc nations matching your criteria (18–30 bit word size, 1958–1975),
organized by country and translated into English.
---
### 1. Poland (ELWRO & Academic Institutions)
* **Odra 1204 (1967)**
* **Word Size:** **24 bits**
* **Description:** Designed and manufactured by ELWRO in Wrocław, the
Odra 1204 was an original Polish-designed second-generation
transistorized computer intended for scientific and industrial calculations.
* **Odra 1300 Series — 1304, 1305, 1325 (1970–1973)**
* **Word Size:** **24 bits**
* **Description:** Built by ELWRO under an official license agreement
with Britain's ICT/ICL. These systems were hardware-compatible with the
ICT 1900 series and could run ICL operating systems (Executive, GEORGE 2/3).
* **K-202 (1971)**
* **Word Size:** **16/24 bits** (16-bit word size, but featured extended
24-bit logical addressing space allowing up to 8 MB of memory).
* **Description:** Designed by Jacek Karpiński, it was an advanced
16-bit minicomputer with 24-bit addressing capabilities that surpassed
many Western equivalents at the time.
---
### 2. Soviet Union (USSR)
* **Ural Family — Ural-11, Ural-14, Ural-16 (1964–1969)**
* **Word Size:** **24 bits** (addressable in 12-bit or 24-bit
half-words; expandable up to 48 bits for floating-point calculations).
* **Description:** Developed at the Penza Computing Machines Plant under
Penza's design team led by Bashir Rameev. These were semiconductor-based
mainframe computers designed for engineering, economic planning, and
scientific data processing.
* **Dniepr / Dnepr-1 (1961) & Dnepr-2 (1968)**
* **Word Size:** **26 bits** (24 data bits + 2 parity/sign bits).
* **Description:** Developed by the Glushkov Institute of Cybernetics in
Kyiv (Ukrainian SSR), the Dnepr series was the premier general-purpose
process-control computer used for industrial automation across the
Eastern Bloc.
* **M-220 & M-222 (1968)**
* **Word Size:** **24 bits** (extended / half-word variants of the
45-bit M-20 architecture).
* **Description:** Medium-class scientific minicomputers/mainframes
derived from the tube-based M-20 line, rebuilt using discrete
semiconductor logic.
* **MIR Series — MIR-1 (1965) & MIR-2 (1969)**
* **Word Size:** **Microprogrammed / Variable** (processed data in
12-bit to 24-bit chunks with dynamically configured bit structures).
* **Description:** Developed under Viktor Glushkov in Kyiv, MIR
("Machine for Engineering Calculations") was designed specifically to
execute high-level symbolic mathematical operations directly in hardware.
---
### 3. East Germany (GDR / VEB Robotron)
* **Robotron R 4200 / PR 2100 (1968–1970)**
* **Word Size:** **18 bits**
* **Description:** Manufactured by VEB Kombinat Robotron, these
process-control systems used an 18-bit word structure (inspired in part
by DEC's PDP-9/PDP-15 architectures) for industrial automation and
real-time monitoring.
---
### 4. Czechoslovakia (TESLA / ZPA)
* **MSP 2 (1966)**
* **Word Size:** **24 bits**
* **Description:** Developed at the Research Institute of Mathematical
Machines (VÚMS) in Prague, the MSP 2 was a small-scale transistorized
computer built for scientific calculations and data gathering.
* **ZPA ZTA 900 / ZPA 600 (Late 1960s)**
* **Word Size:** **24 bits**
* **Description:** Modular industrial process-control computers built
primarily for automation in manufacturing plants across Czechoslovakia.
---
### Key Historical Architecture Context
During the 1950s–1970s transition period, Eastern European design teams
routinely chose **24-bit** structures because 24 bits provided a
favorable balance:
1. **Character Storage:** It cleanly fit four 6-bit characters.
2. **Fixed/Floating Point:** It offered sufficient precision for general
engineering without requiring expensive 36-bit or 48-bit hardware
components.
By 1974–1975, most Eastern Bloc development pivoted toward the **ES
EVM** (Unified System, based on 32-bit IBM System/360) and **SM EVM**
(based on 16-bit DEC PDP-11), making 18-to-30-bit non-standard word
sizes obsolete.
--
Antonio Carlini
[email protected]
