Brief comments on a couple of topics... I hadn't heard of the MISE or M3SE before, so I googled. Remarkable projects. It's pretty tempting to get an M3SE to play with on the Model 4P that I bought as a reference platform when I was adding 4P support to xtrs. (I don't have any other physical TRS-80s anymore.) Time continues to be a big problem in the way of doing retrocomputing stuff, though.
I heard about Bob Taylor's death through a farewell email that Bob composed and had his son send out to Bob's old associates after his death. A bit spooky. I worked for Bob for several years at DEC SRC. On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 10:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Harry Huskey, Bob Taylor -- sad news (Jon Elson) > 2. Re: MISE and M3SE (Peter Cetinski) > 3. Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory (william degnan) > 4. Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory (Warner Losh) > 5. Re: Harry Huskey, Bob Taylor -- sad news (Kirk Davis) > 6. Re: Harry Huskey, Bob Taylor -- sad news (Al Kossow) > 7. Nat Semi 32016 Genix backup floppies available (Jon Elson) > 8. Silent 700 thermal paper (Charles Dickman) > 9. Re: Looking for PDP-8 G603 "Memory Selector Matrix" boards > (or dec T-2052 transformers) (Charles Dickman) > 10. Re: Silent 700 thermal paper (Paul Berger) > 11. Re: Silent 700 thermal paper (Fred Cisin) > 12. Re: Silent 700 thermal paper (Chuck Guzis) > 13. Re: Looking for PDP-8 G603 "Memory Selector Matrix" boards > (or dec T-2052 transformers) (Jon Elson) > 14. Re: Looking for PDP-8 G603 "Memory Selector Matrix" boards > (or dec T-2052 transformers) (Vincent Slyngstad) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:34:12 -0500 > From: Jon Elson <[email protected]> > To: Evan Koblentz <[email protected]>, [email protected], > [email protected]:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Harry Huskey, Bob Taylor -- sad news > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 04/15/2017 12:00 AM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > > Two computer industry pioneers died in the past week. > > > > Harry Huskey worked on ENIAC, the Pilot ACE, SWAC, and the > > Bendix G-15. He was also known for helping overseas > > universities start their CS programs. Harry was 101. > > > Wow, that's amazing. I had no idea he was still around! I > hope he wrote up some memoirs or left stories. > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:40:18 -0400 > From: Peter Cetinski <[email protected]> > To: Bill Gunshannon <[email protected]>, "General > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: MISE and M3SE > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Apr 15, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Well, now that I know there are TRS-80 afficianados here i wonder if > there > > are any MISE/M3SE experts? I have both running here now and really like > > them. But, back in the "good ole days" I was priomarily a DOSPLUS user > > with a little NEWDOS80 once in a while. I was wondering if it is > possible > > to get either or both of these DOSes working with the MISE & M3SE. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > bill > > Bill, there is a MISE yahoo group that Peter Bartlett maintains and > actively supports so you may want to ask there. But, I can tell you that > MISE/M3SE utilize quite a bit of custom driver code so it would be a > significant effort to support other OSes. However, its probably best to > ask the creator himself. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:56:59 -0400 > From: william degnan <[email protected]> > To: "Tapley, Mark" <[email protected]>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory > Message-ID: > <CABGJBudW89B98D0vuKoMDMB0eHFQi1uB_R=E14rx8kDoR5afNA@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > > > > Rainbow Memory Extension Option Installation Guide: EK-PCMKE-IN > > > > ?Two versions of the memory extension option are available: a 64 K byte > > option (part number PC1XX-AA) and a 192K byte option (part number > > PC1XX-AB). The memory option is installed in the J6 connector ? > > ? Both versions of the memory extension option use the same printed > > circuit board etch and the same type of 6kK x 1 bit memory chips. ? the > > 192K byte version contains twenty-seven 64K x 1 bit chips arranged as > three > > 64K byte memory stacks. ... > > > > > > From my Rainbow Owner?s manual 1st ed. Sept 1983, Appx. C, Table > > C-1 > > ? > > 64K byte memory board option: PC1XX-AC > > 256K byte memory board option: PC1XX-AD > > 64K byte memory component kit (9 chips) PC1XX-AY > > 256K byte memory component kit (9 chips) PC1XX-AZ > > ? > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Just chiming in...I am the person who provided Warner with the VENIX > disks. I probably have more RAM than I need in my machines (I have three > and I think I have an A, B, and a regular Rainbow here. All of this talk > has peaked my interest to set mine up and see if the new Rainbow I just got > this week works. In addition to VENIX I have a lot of other disks and > parts. > > Not saying I plan to sell anything in particular, but once I assess my > systems and get one good maxed out working system going I will probably > sell off the spare parts. > > Bill > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:32:27 -0600 > From: Warner Losh <[email protected]> > To: william degnan <[email protected]>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory > Message-ID: > <CANCZdfp9U2nVXqjPX48Z+43CWTw_1X1PDOVhCb06w46KgAxzfg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:56 AM, william degnan via cctalk > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Rainbow Memory Extension Option Installation Guide: EK-PCMKE-IN > >> > >> ?Two versions of the memory extension option are available: a 64 K byte > >> option (part number PC1XX-AA) and a 192K byte option (part number > >> PC1XX-AB). The memory option is installed in the J6 connector ? > >> ? Both versions of the memory extension option use the same > printed > >> circuit board etch and the same type of 6kK x 1 bit memory chips. ? the > >> 192K byte version contains twenty-seven 64K x 1 bit chips arranged as > three > >> 64K byte memory stacks. ... > >> > >> > >> From my Rainbow Owner?s manual 1st ed. Sept 1983, Appx. C, Table > >> C-1 > >> ? > >> 64K byte memory board option: PC1XX-AC > >> 256K byte memory board option: PC1XX-AD > > I think that have what looks like the AD option, but it only brings my > Rainbow 100A up to 256k. I bought the 100A recently based on a seller > telling me it was a 100B. Grump. But at least its floppy controller > and drive are in much better shape than my old ones, so I have some > parts now. Just not sure what to do with them, but they may become > spare parts, which I might be willing to part with. Not sure yet. > > Also, the boards themselves have numbers like 53xxxxxx and don't list > the actual part. So googling for them often involves googling for that > number because it's what sellers have easily available to them... > > >> 64K byte memory component kit (9 chips) PC1XX-AY > >> 256K byte memory component kit (9 chips) PC1XX-AZ > >> ? > >> > >> Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > Just chiming in...I am the person who provided Warner with the VENIX > > disks. I probably have more RAM than I need in my machines (I have three > > and I think I have an A, B, and a regular Rainbow here. All of this talk > > has peaked my interest to set mine up and see if the new Rainbow I just > got > > this week works. In addition to VENIX I have a lot of other disks and > > parts. > > Cool! I've had much luck since we talked last. I'm 5 sectors away from > having all the disks read. Well, and understanding the encoding used > on the boot disk to store the serial number in a difficult to > replicate manner. At least I think that's what's going on. See > http://bsdimp.blogspot.com/2017/04/rainbow-100-venix86r-disks-found.html > for a few details. > > Unfortunately, the 5 sectors are on User disks 2 and 3, so are early > in the series, which may make all the other readable disks useless. > Not sure if there was compression at the time, so maybe it will just > corrupt a few files. This is out of 16 400k disks, so it's a quite > high percentage for them being so old. > > Btw, anybody know what might be on an "Enhanced BWS Supplementary > disk"? A quick google search didn't bring up anything, but it's a > Version 7 Unix. I'm hoping it's the compiler, in which case I may be > able to reconstruct the missing material from the V7 sources. > > Warner > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:23:35 -0700 > From: Kirk Davis <[email protected]> > To: Evan Koblentz <[email protected]>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Harry Huskey, Bob Taylor -- sad news > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/technology/robert- > taylor-innovator-who-shaped-modern-computing-dies-at-85.html?_r=0 < > https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/technology/robert- > taylor-innovator-who-shaped-modern-computing-dies-at-85.html?_r=0> > > > On Apr 14, 2017, at 10:00 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Two computer industry pioneers died in the past week. > > > > Harry Huskey worked on ENIAC, the Pilot ACE, SWAC, and the Bendix G-15. > He was also known for helping overseas universities start their CS > programs. Harry was 101. > > > > Bob Taylor was an ARPAnet pioneer and Xerox PARC executive. He was 85. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Evan Koblentz, director > > Vintage Computer Federation > > a 501(c)3 educational non-profit > > > > [email protected] > > (646) 546-9999 > > > > www.vcfed.org > > facebook.com/vcfederation > > twitter.com/vcfederation > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:29:15 -0700 > From: Al Kossow <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Harry Huskey, Bob Taylor -- sad news > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > some, but not enough > > Harry did an oral history at CHM when he became a fellow, as did Bob > > On 4/15/17 8:34 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > > > Wow, that's amazing. I had no idea he was still around! I hope he > wrote up some memoirs or left stories. > > > > Jon > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 13:28:24 -0500 > From: Jon Elson <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], [email protected]:On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts <[email protected]> > Subject: Nat Semi 32016 Genix backup floppies available > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > As I may have mentioned a while back, I have dug out my > backup floppy disks from my National Semiconductor Genix > system. In 1984 or so, I built a clone of a Logical > Microcomputer 32016 system and copied the OS. I used it for > a while, but it was maddeningly slow. This system used a > Multibus backplane and a Konan Taisho disk controller, that > could handle MFM floppies and hard drives. This backup is > from my copy of the system, and so has a few tidbits of > mildly interesting stuff. One thing is I was helping Steve > Ciarcia of Circuit Cellar magazine answer his mail, and as > this was my only system with 5" floppies, I used it for > that. So, this backup probably has some rather amusing > replies to the totally INSANE questions he got. One of my > favorites was "Steve, can you jot down on the back of an > envelope the schematic for an IBM PC so I can hand wire > it?" I also wrote a VERY BAD driver for a Versatec printer. > It worked, but was insanely inefficient in graphics mode, > and took a half hour per page to print. Worked fine in text > mode, though. > > I don't remember what compilers we had on this, obviously C, > and maybe Pascal and FORTRAN. > > Since it worked fine to read and write PC compatible > floppies, the floppy format should be easy to read. But, I > think this "backup" is a block by block dump of the file > system. Notes on the floppies show : > cp dc(0,0) on the first, > cp dc(0,800) on the second, etc. > > So, if anyone wants to try to recover the files off this, > I'd be glad to donate the set. It appears to be 2 boxes of > floppies, 28 in total. I have some more floppies that seem > to be the last half of an earlier backup, with less info on > how it was written. > > Thanks, > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:05:02 -0400 > From: Charles Dickman <[email protected]> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Silent 700 thermal paper > Message-ID: > <CAAq7DHqPSgf12WY3HTxLnJheEMgX3pTbRcC4votEY0ztDO+76g@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > How long does it last? > > I have two Silent 700 terminals that have not been used since the > mid-80's and a box of thermal paper. Is the thermal paper any good or > should I get some more before I try to play with the terminals. > > Is paper that wide available new and not NOS? I bought some TTY paper > and it was NOS and so it is just about to disintegrate before I use > it. > > -chuck > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:15:46 -0400 > From: Charles Dickman <[email protected]> > To: Pete Lancashire <[email protected]>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Looking for PDP-8 G603 "Memory Selector Matrix" boards > (or dec T-2052 transformers) > Message-ID: > <CAAq7DHr5PgYwgGmju6moDtHbbjAUkcGuEG-g3nUxxBJyjgEapw@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Do we know who made the transformers originally? I maintain some old > industrial hardware designs that used pulse transformers from the > mid-60's and I may still have catalogs and/or data sheets. > > -chuck > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Using a t-2052 build up a test fixture, a pulse generator and a > > oscilloscope and if have access to one a high bandwidth current probe. > Use > > the 2052s you have, record the curves etc and then make up some test > > transformers. > > > > -Pete component engineer in a former life. > > > > On Apr 13, 2017 3:36 PM, "Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk" < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I realize it's a long shot, but does anyone have: > >>> > >> > >> - Any spare T-2052s (or know of a source) > >>> - Any idea what the T-2052 *was* so I can try to replace them. I > haven't > >>> found much detail as of yet. > >>> > >> > >> Good news on this front! > >> > >> I had previously obtained a data sheet for the T2037, a similar > >> transformer. > >> > >> I extracted 4 each T2037 and T2052 from a broken G228, and today I was > >> able to get measurements off of them: > >> > >> T2037: > >> A: 230uH, 170 mohm primary, 42.9uH 100 mohm secondary > >> B: 220/170, 41.6/100 > >> C: 232/170, 43.8/60 > >> D: 231/170, 43/80 > >> > >> These are consistent with 16 turns and 7 turns of #33 wire, wound on an > >> FT37-77 toroid per the instructions on the data sheet, and also with the > >> 220 uH /43 uH 20% specs that appear there. > >> > >> Here are the T2052 measurements: > >> A: 597/320, 597/320 > >> B: 530/270, 530/270 > >> C: 34/1040, 24/680 > >> D: 551/280, 551/280 > >> > >> Ignoring "C", which is quite likely broken in some way, these are > >> consistent with a 25 turn 1:1 transformer. I'm not sure what they are > >> wound with, as #33 wire should give a lower DC resistance. > >> (#34 is closer. It's also possible that they changed cores, but I > suspect > >> that they are also wound on FT37-77 cores.) > >> > >> It's possible that a fairly standard modern 1:1 pulse transformer could > be > >> substituted. The 78615/2JC, for instance is 500uH, 1:1 if you ignore > the > >> center tap pins. > >> > >> Vince > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:23:18 -0300 > From: Paul Berger <[email protected]> > To: Charles Dickman <[email protected]>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Silent 700 thermal paper > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > It would not hurt it to try, at worst the printout would be faint, how > well the paper survives depends a lot on how it was stored. Direct > sunlight definitely will degrade the paper that is why it is often in > black bags. If the paper is 8.5" wide you could use the roll paper for > thermal fax machines, that paper should be readily available at office > supply stores. > > Paul. > > > On 2017-04-15 10:05 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > > How long does it last? > > > > I have two Silent 700 terminals that have not been used since the > > mid-80's and a box of thermal paper. Is the thermal paper any good or > > should I get some more before I try to play with the terminals. > > > > Is paper that wide available new and not NOS? I bought some TTY paper > > and it was NOS and so it is just about to disintegrate before I use > > it. > > > > -chuck > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:29:30 -0700 (PDT) > From: Fred Cisin <[email protected]> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Silent 700 thermal paper > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Sat, 15 Apr 2017, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > > > It would not hurt it to try, at worst the printout would be faint, how > well > > the paper survives depends a lot on how it was stored. Direct sunlight > > definitely will degrade the paper that is why it is often in black bags. > If > > the paper is 8.5" wide you could use the roll paper for thermal fax > machines, > > that paper should be readily available at office supply stores. > > Sheets of thermal paper can also be used (Gavilan printer used those, as > did some of the fax machines) > > Expect the outer wraps of the roll to be the first to go bad, so you'll > probably have to discard the outer fraction of each roll. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 20:52:30 -0700 > From: Chuck Guzis <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Silent 700 thermal paper > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > My experience with thermal fax paper is that printed copy is best > preserved. I discovered a couple of years ago, that manufacturers' > faxed copies of data from the early 1990s have faded almost to > unreadability. > > Not black, but faded, as with disappearing ink > > Storage was in a file folder in a file cabinet in temperature and > humidity-controlled environment not exposed to light for very long at all > > I've had blue-line copies similarly fade after about 40 years. > > Thermofax, anyone? > > --Chuck > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:04:58 -0500 > From: Jon Elson <[email protected]> > To: Charles Dickman <[email protected]>, [email protected], > [email protected]:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Looking for PDP-8 G603 "Memory Selector Matrix" boards > (or dec T-2052 transformers) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > On 04/15/2017 08:15 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > > Do we know who made the transformers originally? I maintain some old > > industrial hardware designs that used pulse transformers from the > > mid-60's and I may still have catalogs and/or data sheets. > > > > > Some of the big names are Pulse Engineering and Rhombus > Industries. I think DEC used Pulse Engineering in a lot of > PDP-11 and VAX vintage stuff, so maybe they used them back > in the PDP-8 days, too. > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 00:06:28 -0700 > From: "Vincent Slyngstad" <[email protected]> > To: "Charles Dickman" <[email protected]>, "Pete Lancashire" > <[email protected]>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic > Posts" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Looking for PDP-8 G603 "Memory Selector Matrix" boards > (or dec T-2052 transformers) > Message-ID: <767045AC85F44FD2885541FEF248C034@Vincew7> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; > reply-type=original > > From: Charles Dickman via cctalk: Saturday, April 15, 2017 6:15 PM > > Do we know who made the transformers originally? I maintain some old > > industrial hardware designs that used pulse transformers from the > > mid-60's and I may still have catalogs and/or data sheets. > > The DEC part number for these parts is 16-05794. Variant -05 is the > T2037, and variant -02 is the T2052. > > I don't remember any more how I did it, but at some point, I tracked > these down to bhelectronics.com. The information they were able to > provide for the T2037 shows the logo of Buckbee Mears Co. of > St. Paul, Minn. and the stamp of the "Pulse Transformer Div". > Presumably BH Electronics acquired Buckbee Mears at some point. > They also indicate that they were manufactured to DEC's spec's. > > I wouldn't expect them to have much more information -- they > indicated they'd sent me what they had, and that was paper > records back in 2004. It would be great to turn up some old > data sheets, though. The "code ident no." on the manufacturing > docs is 08450, and the number 500-0587 is also repeated on > every page. > > Vince > > > End of cctech Digest, Vol 34, Issue 15 > ************************************** >
