Hi Jonathan,
> On Mar 13, 2016, at 21:15 , Jonathan Morton <chromati...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 13 Mar, 2016, at 20:25, moeller0 <moell...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> I also fondly remember my 3310, but I certainy do not want to go back there,
>> that week of standby be damned ;)
>
> I don’t actually use my 3310 very much - it’s there for emergencies more than
> anything else. But I do think it makes a better phone than my Android
> phablet.
>
> The latter is pretty good at the whole “internet terminal” and “utility app”
> thing, but it’s a pretty lousy phone. Indeed the “make a phone call”
> functionality is presented as just another app, albeit one that can’t be
> uninstalled. I can’t even type a text message any faster on it (to the same
> accuracy) than on my 3310. It works adequately as a phone, rather than well.
My sentiment as well; only I realized I value a mobile internet
terminal (with acceptable phone capability) more than an excellent phone
without internet access ;)
>
>> while the password could be randomized, I envision user unhappiness with
>> randomized SSIDs
>
> I don’t see why - that’s the one they don’t have to type, because it gets
> scanned for.
>
> A straight random string of characters from the base64 or base85 character
> sets would be hard to recognise or read out loud, but I was thinking more
> along the lines of picking randomly from wordlists, so you’d get SSIDs of the
> form “AdjectiveNoun” which are relatively easy to recognise and remember, yet
> still likely to be locally unique.
>
> Passwords chosen by a similar method (ie. virtual diceware) would also be
> easier to type, etc. CorrectHorseBatteryStaple…
I had considered this, but looking at the SSIDs in my neighborhood,
people either stick to the default or pick something clever/funny; and dice
ware will not allow those users to fulfill their wittiness. For passwords that
might work, have people “roll” a fresh one until they like the result …
>
>> That reminds me a bit of https://www.securifi.com/almondplus
>
> The eye-watering price is certainly notable. It’s unclear how much of that
> is profit margin, and how much went into the screen. I note also the
> touchscreen UI, at which I have to squint to work out what each icon is for
> (despite the bright, high-res colour screen).
The price is putting this well into the life-style accessory terrain ;)
(I wonder whether this thing actually sells, but its main selling point is the
display so I thought it relevant to the current discussion).
>
> There’s a lot to be said for the old Amstrad PCW type of UI. Very little
> window dressing, straight down to business.
>
>> The keypad is sort of helpful to put in say IP addresses (or passwords with
>> a T9 like numerical hash for words system). I have used old HP on printer
>> interfaces to configure IP networking, not an experience I would recommend
>> to emulate (not that you are doing tis, but please keep the failures of old
>> in mind when designing your system).
>
> I just looked up a few HP printer manuals to see what you’re talking about.
> Setting numerical values by incremental button presses does sound tedious -
> but I already knew that from badly-designed microwave ovens. The cheap ones
> come with a clockwork dial, which is actually easier to use than the typical
> “increment 10 mins, 1 min or 10 sec” buttons. I deliberately bought a good
> one with a digital dial.
>
> At university, I often saw people routinely set the microwave timer for 10
> minutes, simply because it required fewer button presses than the correct
> setting. We had a lot of false fire alarms.
>
> But I’m not presently considering putting buttons on the device itself. The
> screen will be a significant expense in itself; adding enough buttons to be a
> worthwhile input device sounds like another big cost. But there’ll be a USB
> port somewhere anyway, and most users will have something worthwhile to plug
> into it.
Honestly, if it is not self sufficient, then an display-only solution
seems inferior to even a mediocre web-interface, given that everybody
(requiring to set-up a router) probably is browser-proficient already. Having
the display in addition is superior for sure.
>
> Clearly a keyboard will be the preferred input device. Though there are many
> national layouts, we can rely on arrow keys, a full Latin alphabet, Arabic
> numerals, space, backspace and return giving consistent keycodes. Or at
> least, we can once we correct for QWERTY/QWERTZ/AZERTY/Dvorak quirks - we can
> prompt the user to press the Z key to distinguish between these. Rapid and
> accurate navigation and data entry should then be easy.
I believe using a web browser for access solves these issues quite
elegantly ;)
>
> As a subtype of keyboards, though, there are standalone numeric keypads,
> essentially the part missing from a laptop keyboard. Those may merit special
> consideration - they don’t have a Z key.
>
> There are established ways of navigating menus and entering text using
> console controllers - since that’s a problem consoles themselves have had to
> solve. It’s clunky, but somehow they get people to pay $60 per game for the
> privilege of entering CD key codes this way.
>
> It should also be feasible to allow a mouse to be used. Almost all mice
> these days have a scroll wheel, which we can use to scan through the
> character set instead of trying to squeeze a virtual keyboard onto the
> screen. Navigation would be by pointing, left-click to select, right-click
> to cancel/exit.
If this comes as an additional/emergency method to access the device
this all sounds great, but as the main method that does not seem to be superior
to a reasonably well made web-interface (or as much as I dislike those an “app”
interface). But I am fully aware that this is a) a matter of taste and b) my
taste is quite peculiar (meaning I have no clue what the “masses” will like).
>
> If this sounds like a complex solution to a problem - maybe it is, at the
> design level. I think users will find it simple. That matters more.
>
>> Well, a lot of ISP supplied routers have a sticker on the back giving
>> exactly the information (in addition to the password for the web-gui)
>
> My Buffalo router has such a sticker. It says the web-UI login is
> root/(blank). That, right there, is my best argument against Web
> configuration interfaces - they are impossible to secure in the factory-fresh
> state.
I can only speak for my ISP, but each device has a unique(?)
password/passcode (which might be trivially deduced from serial and/or mac
numbers). So if DTAG can pull this through so could OEMs/ODMs (that after all
build the devices the ISPs distribute in the first place).
Best Regards
Sebastian
>
> - Jonathan Morton
>
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