Ben --
It's interesting that you would ask me about counselors. Some of them are
worth their salt, others are just wasting valuable oxygen. I've taken the
Myers Briggs test (I*TP), the campbell's skill assessment survey (avoid
teaching), and now looking at motivational patterning. It was easy to
figure out how to tweak the myers briggs, and the campbells... but I think
the object of those tests wasn't to reverse engineer the actual test but to
understand yourself. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Curiously
enough, none of these options were ever presented to me when I was going
through my high school counselors. [for the record I'm now 26... that's
close enough to 30 for government work]
In earnest I kind of see myself as a renaissance man. I want to skydive
(way to go mike!), learn tai-kwan-do/silat, play the guitar, become a
millionare... but I can't find the time to do half of it! And how do any of
those relate to a career? Good question.
---
Daniel Dewey |"Tell me, and I'll forget.
Systems Developer | Show me, and I may not remember.
MCP (NT srvr/wkstn/eprise) | Involve me, and I'll understand."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | - Native American Proverb
http://www.pobox.com/~dewey | 610-868-1421, x115
The National Association of Colleges and Employers
These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
-----Original Message-----
From: Braver, Ben [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 1:41 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: CS vs BFA
Daniel,
Philosophical question: which is worse - bad counselors (then), or none at
all (now)? <g>
And about grammar, I can't believe how many smart, talented people do not
know the difference between possessive and plural (e.g. "I drank three cup's
of coffee", "Change given for customer's only"), never heard of an adverb
("They drove over here quick" instead of "quickly"), don't understand
contractions ("your right" instead of "you're right").
Let's not even mention commas...
<sigh>
Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dewey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 10:36 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: CS vs BFA
Like they say
those who can - do
those who can't - teach
those who can't teach - counsel
I absolutely hated my guidance counselors in High School. You're right
about the grammar though, they don't teach it in this country. *sigh*
---
Daniel Dewey |"Tell me, and I'll forget.
Systems Developer | Show me, and I may not remember.
MCP (NT srvr/wkstn/eprise) | Involve me, and I'll understand."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | - Native American Proverb
http://www.pobox.com/~dewey | 610-868-1421, x115
The National Association of Colleges and Employers
These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
-----Original Message-----
From: Erika L Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:43 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: CS vs BFA
I was never "afraid" of math. I just didn't like it. I wasn't a "numbers
cruncher". Wasn't any fun for me. I much preferred painting and choir....but
also woodshop and metal shop....so there was some amount of math a person
needed to know, but since I wasn't going to be an engineer, and I didn't
know I was going to be into programming, I couldn't find the relevance, and
guidance counselors were of no help whatsoever.
I was grinning at your reference to a foreign language.....now there was a
subject I absolutely adored! English, hated it. And from my posts, you can
probably tell that. My grammar usage is not the best, but I am working on
it. When I took my first Spanish class, I was amazed! I sped right through
the textbook, learning it as fast as I could....and what amazed me the most
(and in reference to everything falling into place), was in conjugating
Spanish verbs and learning Spanish grammar, I learned how to apply it to my
English courses, and, as a result, received better marks in English. The
next year, I needed more of a challenge, so I did Spanish II and French I,
back to back! Oh what fun it was! Now, if only I could remember it all
today. :-(
The math mis-understanding is a shame, I guess, in hindsight. I hope schools
today are a lot better at prepping young minds.
Erika
"There are only two ways to live your life: One is as though nothing is a
miracle, the other is as though everything is." - Albert Einstein
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dewey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:10 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: CS vs BFA
I'm always amazed at the number of people who consider math to be 'hard'.
It really isn't, but we're taught from a very early age to be afraid of math
and science... like it's magic or something (reference to arthur clarke
ignored for now).
Just for the record, as a CS/math major, I struggled through the
curriculum. IRC was much more entertaining, but that's another story. I
went through the motions, but trigonometry and calculus were worse than
learning a foreign language (hey, is that why everything uses greek
letters?!? how clever!). When I took physics class, everything fell into
place. Sines, co-sines, differentiation, rates of change, etc etc etc (the
relationship between accelleration, velocity, and distance is all explained
through... calc!). Oh, ok... so I wanted to be an astronaught when I grew
up. So sue me.
Since I'm ranting and raving... I always thought of mathmatics as 'exact'.
After all, in grade school you're taught to get the 'right answer'. But
life isn't about right answers, and higher math is even less so. You can
get by with 'close enough' (unless you're doing proofs, once again, another
story). When you take trig, you use approximations. No one knows the exact
value of e, or Pi. With calc it gets worse. I remember someone asking the
prof "how do you know you've reached the right answer". The response was
"well, it didn't go to 0 or to infinity, did it?'. I don't know about you,
but that sounds less like science and more like art!
I know I'm a minority on this list, but raise your hand if you loved
operations research!
---
Daniel Dewey |"Tell me, and I'll forget.
Systems Developer | Show me, and I may not remember.
MCP (NT srvr/wkstn/eprise) | Involve me, and I'll understand."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | - Native American Proverb
http://www.pobox.com/~dewey | 610-868-1421, x115
The National Association of Colleges and Employers
These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
-----Original Message-----
From: Erika L Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:08 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: CS vs BFA
Nick,
For the mathematically challenged, those subjects are a bit tough. I mean I
managed to pull B's, but it was like laboring intensively under 110 degree
conditions with no food and water...absolute torture to get through....I'm
basically a artsy person, like to paint and draw, so my brain just couldn't
handle all the calculations. Besides, back then, I didn't know I was going
into programming.
I have to say though, I did attend an 11-month programming course a couple
of years ago, Java, C, JavaScript, RPG were the subjects, and my inability
to process calculations really never came into play. I passed with a 98.5
average and thoroughly enjoyed all. So I still don't see where it comes into
play.....unless you are talking about physically seeing how to get to the
bottom of calculation like in shopping carts and things.....which I can
visually see and work through.
Just because I am curious how others code, can you give me an example?
Erika
"There are only two ways to live your life: One is as though nothing is a
miracle, the other is as though everything is." - Albert Einstein
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:34 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: RE: CS vs BFA
This is strange, I find myself using algebra and calc all the time in my
programming.
and I am not being a smart ass here.
At 08:35 PM 4/8/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>The short version:
>
>Tried college, couldn't do it. I was an artsy, geeky type and hated school,
>it was boring. Couldn't figure out where I was going to apply
>algebra/calculus to life...so I quit.
>
>Worked my way up the corporate ladder as a cash office
>clerk/cashier/plan-o-gram manager/store-opener/assistant buyer/clerk for a
>big retail chain for 2.5 years, had a panic attack from the stress, quit,
>then trained horses (10 years, most full-time, part-time up until 3 years
>ago) during which I maintained a career in the printing industry doing
>graphic design and implementing digital technologies, hit the salary
ceiling
>and decided to go the internet route.
>
>Now I am deliriously happy in my career of choice.
>
>Erika
>
>"It is better to be wrong than to simply follow convention. If you are
>wrong, no matter, you have learned something and will grow stronger. If you
>are right, you have taken another step toward a fulfilling life." - Bryce
>Courteney
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Marc Garrett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:12 AM
>To: CF-Community
>Subject: Re: CS vs BFA
>
>
>I was an English major, then took my Juris Doctor and worked as an
>environmental consultant before turning to databases and CF/ASP.
>
>Someday, in a perfect world, I hope to tie it all together. :-)
>
>Marc Garrett
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Judith Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:58 AM
>Subject: Re: CS vs BFA
>
>
> > Woohoo! Now I don't feel so awkward.
>
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