On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Loathe wrote: > "Getting inside their OODA Loop" > > Where'd you hear that?
Some flyboy named "40 Second Boyd". =] .... > I agree with you on a lot of issues. I will come out and say that > Clinton was a better president than Bush2. I'm not a fan of his. I'm > against the many invasions of privacy he's been at the helm for, I'm not > a fan of many things his administration has done or allowed. > > That being said, I'm also skeptical of ALL news. Thats why I ask for > evidence. I would rather wait to hear what is actually proved before > rushing to judgment. It was proven that Clinton maliciously lied to > congress, I haven't seen that evidence yet for Bush. If so I would > support his being impeached. Well, part of my point is that people were rushing to judge Clinton, but seem to give Bush2 a pass, you know? With Clinton it was "show us the evidence", with Bush2 it's "until there is evidence"-- and the first one was for a blow-job! Just goes to show where people's priorities are, you know? With Porn. LOL. > I totally disagree with you about WW2. I think if anything we showed > our strength and resolution as a nation to defeat evil by any means. > Were their mistakes and travesties? Yes but there always will be, at > war and at peace alike. Look at the Clinton's own assaults of the > rights of the gun owner, on people like those at Waco and Ruby Ridge. > Look at how his administration went after non-violent often victimless > crimes in the pointless drug war. True, Ruby Ridge and Waco were fiascoes (understatement), and Clinton *did* nix the assault weapons (for a while, right? Can't you at least own them again?), but there was a major difference, too: It was the will of the people. Or at least a good bit of them. You don't get that kind of legislation through without a bunch of team-work, and a lot of support (or a terrorist attack, maybe). Clinton, for all his punk moves, was a uniter. He got crap done, which you have to respect, in some fashion. Bush had a free pass, to really *do* some things... The war in Iraq: Would you consider it the will of the people? Or was it more like the people were told to will for it? I know that I felt like "we" were being bamboozled. Just say it straight, no need to embellish (that's what bugs me about Moore) or spin -- let the facts speak for themselves. Like you said, about diplomacy? We should have twisted the fucking arms off of everybody who harbors these mother-fuckers. We had the support, and I think there might have even been team-work... Don't get me wrong-- Sad as I am to say it, I guess I'll concede that you thought Iraq was the imminent threat (LOL! Concede your thoughts -- gotta love that!), but you have to admit that you were in the minority, and that the rest of the country had to be incited somehow (only the administration wanted it so bad, they didn't give two shits if what they said was true or not). It wasn't done right, and they *knew* it, which is what makes it more unacceptable. Or... Do you agree with Robert in thinking that "The evidence is that everyone, including the White House, was misled"? Rob's already said he doesn't have a problem with repeating what he knew was a lie, which I didn't really flow with... I've said some things (treason, etc.) that might seem extreme to someone who only looks at each piece by itself, out of context (and I'm not a lawyer ;]), but I really feel that Bush2 should be held to the same standards we hold ourselves to, and that he has clearly fucked up. Come on, we don't have to *actually* impeach him, but we could at least make it look good. I think we do agree on a lot, and I think I agree with the Munnstar more than it seems, but I happen to think that there is more evidence (you can't deny that there is already a volume of data that would make even Jim "believe" -- and he's a devout cynic, ya know?), and so I'm demanding it, as opposed to (perhaps because of fear of knowing) the "let's wait and see" approach. If you're not looking for it, how will you find it? Chance? Just what we *know* has gone down, that you yourself don't like... what do you think should be done? Should anyone be held accountable, or should we just say "well, that's how it goes" and try to change things? If we "forget", did we learn the lesson? Maybe subliminally... :-] The invasion of privacy stuff for sure is un-American, yet I bet there are people who argue that we need it, and it gives the government the power it needs to keep it's people safe. Eh. Yes, we're probably not too far apart, really. Hell, no one is that far apart, really. If we had a giant asteroid headed this way, or an alien invasion, or perhaps a really bad disease, the whole world would come together faster than you could say "united we stand". It's almost strange, because, if we did that /right now/-- we could just *really* *REALLY* kick major ass. Get our people off this rock, and out into the great unknown, clean up the environment, get everyone smart enough to keep the computers from taking over... just swell stuff. -- You know, I'm starting to feel that maybe torture isn't the way to get what you want, you know, like maybe people just tell you what you want to hear so that you stop pulling out their fingernails. -- The Devil, from the show Reapers (awesome!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:266287 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
