Ok, this is going to sound very gruff, but certain people need to do a LOT more research when they post here.
Unions do not deal with taxes, liability, healthcare issues, or transferring jobs overseas. They do deal with employee rights and collective bargaining in the specific context of handling relataionships between employees and employers. Unions do not handle contract-specific relationships since the definition of that relationship is spelled out in the contract. Excerpt from NUW.ORG "The primary purpose of a union is to maintain and advance the wage rates and working conditions of members, and to defend and promote a fair and safe working environment." When you say "we simply are taught and trained to accept abuse", I'd like to know what your source is for that statement. I certainly was not taught that, and no one ever trained me to accept abuse. I was taught and trained to have a lawyer draw up a solid contract for every engagement, and in the case of non-payment, have said lawyer assist me in filing a claim against the offending party. All said, a Union is not practical, nor wise in the situation described in this overlong thread (that I am contributing to out of frustration). A professional organization, not unlike a Bar Association, would be the best solution in that it would clearly define the criteria to which a member must adhere, the training required, and provide resources and networking for new members. If you don't belong to the, let's say, the Byte Association, then a reputable client would most likely avoid you like the plague. Likewise, non-members would not have the resources available to them to get the good clients. In the end, you wind up with the deadbeat clients working with the deadbeat contractors. They would deserve each other. Excerpts from ABANET.ORG "Welcome to the American Bar Association, the largest voluntary professional association in the world. With more than 400,000 members, the ABA provides law school accreditation, continuing legal education, information about the law, programs to assist lawyers and judges in their work, and initiatives to improve the legal system for the public." "The Mission of the American Bar Association is to be the national representative of the legal profession, serving the public and the profession by promoting justice, professional excellence and respect for the law." -----Original Message----- From: Vincent Cannady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:44 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Dead Beat Clients. Hi Jeff, Here is how a Union could help us all. Number- the Unions deal with Government Issues such as the ones we are talking about a. Taxes b. liability c. healthcare d. Transferring jobs overseas e. Employee Rights f. Collective Bargaining Even if you own your own company they could be a wealth of Resources a. Training b. Access 1,000,000 Liability Insurance c. Network of Programmers d. UNLIKE THIS SITE they could name DEADBEAT CLIENTS who don't pay (upon your request) As Issac mentioned in his post we simply are taught and trained to accept abuse and another thing I think he is right about is the low rate gives people a low expectation of your skills. So how do we win, charging clients up front runs many good clients away because they too have been burned by our unscrupulous lot who have found it easier to ask for money and do no work Not asking for money up front leaves you being owed one months pay and trying to find money to pay your light bill and ISP, because nine out of tenpay the first check but nothing afterwards Suing just takes time,money, and effort Not working leaves you broke We are a disenfranchised lot who argue amongst ourselves we cannot even find common ground to deal with clients who don't pay, some cannot stand the thought of a Union, even the owners of this site tells us what we moan about and if we do they take down our posts. I find our lack organization to be the one reason employers (contract or otherwise) can get away with the things that they do, I mean lawyers have the BAR Association, Doctors have the AAMA, Chambermaids have the SEIU. We have nothing and are treated just like that.Maybe the other guy who said stop programming is right. Maybe our lack of vision says something about us. Maybe we are so logical we are stupid. I do not know but every time someone on this site posts something that cold help us all , all we do is try to take them down instead of support them. Maybe just maybe we deserve what we get if we blame serial non payers on other programmers instead of this lousy system! >I thought unions dealt with employer-employee relationships; whereas >this thread has been dealing with "company - vendor" relationships. Am >I wrong in that? > > I can't imagine how a "programmer's union" would help me. > >Jerry Johnson wrote: >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3641 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
