Thanks Michael! I was about to wave my hands and ask "What am I, chopped liver?"
Rick, maybe it was Jesse's comment including me when he said monitoring this list in not our fulltime job - that was (inadvertantly) not perfectly accurate regarding my duties, though admittedly, I do have to spread myself out amongst the various lists and forums for CF, as well as actually work to make progress internally on community issues. I also have other community responsibilities such as arranging Designer & Developer content, organizing Team Macromedia volunteers for ColdFusion, and other less visible activities that support the community. Nevertheless, I take it as valuable criticism that you didn't realize that I'm supposed to be fulfilling this role, and try to act upon that (well, for the most part, respective of the comments Sean made regarding direct support in these venues). I hope my note here gives more visibility to how we can work together on those things which support the community. Thanks, Vernon Viehe ColdFusion Community Manager Developer Relations Macromedia, Inc. Online diary: http://vvmx.blogspot.com/ -------------------- Macromedia DevCon 2002, October 27-30, Orlando, Florida Architecting a New Internet Experience Register today at www.macromedia.com/go/devcon2002 > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:57 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: The Myth of Bugs (Was Huge Ungainly thread of Doom) > > > That person is Vernon, basically. He's the CF community > manager for MM. Of > course, there are others from MM on the list that do monitor > and answer > questions such as Sean, but when the internal responsibility > comes around, > Vernon's the guy. > And personally, I think he's doing a great job. > > > > I've just been monitoring the thread, but from what I've > read earlier, > > this and maybe other CF-lists and other software lists > might be worth > > assigning > > someone to, to monitor and respond to as their "day job." > > > > Public relations and perception can make or break a company > > these days and it seems to me, especially with a company the > > size of MM, that there would be funds to hire a "Mailing > List / Forum > > Troubleshooter" who is an expert in the software AND its use in > > production who could provide a "first response" technical support > > to users, free of charge...public relations people who are > not experts > > in the software and its use are really not always helpful, except to > > soothe the frayed nerves of customers whose businesses are falling > > apart because they can't get things working. And sometimes you need > > an answer in minutes, not hours or days. > > > > After providing "first response", let the Troubleshooter > then decide which > > issues > > should be taken into the formal chain of technical support. > > > > One of the great benefits of public lists like this and the > support one > > can get is that the support is "public" and not isolated in > a support > > network. > > Solve it for one, you solve it for many. Cuts down on MM's > formal support > > requirements. > > > > I believe this "Troubleshooter" position should be formal, paid, and > > full-time, > > because it's in MM's and the CF (et al) community's best interest. > > > > Would that work? > > > > Rick > > > > Rick Faircloth, > > Prism Productions > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jesse Noller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:52 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: The Myth of Bugs (Was Huge Ungainly thread of Doom) > > > > > > > Whilst I agree with your general point that there's possibly a > > > misintepretation of "doom and gloom for CFMX" within the > recent threads, > > > I'd > > > like to also point out that from what I can see, the developers > > > highlighting > > > the problems are actually seeking help from Macromedia in order to > > > "continue" using CFMX - NOT in order to give up on it altogether. > > > > Threads like the one yesterday, if you go back and read > them, degenerated > > into a series of "throw it out the door" and "I won't be > buying it" etc, > > etc, etc. > > > > People need to realize that yes while software might have > issues, and they > > do want help publicly, there are other people who are reading these > mediums > > who are directly making decisions based off of the words of > the people > > within this community. > > > > If I was a new CFMX customer, and I read the threads from > the past few > > days(weeks) I would send my boxed copy back to macromedia > saying "that was > > fun, no?" > > > > New users, and "on the fence" users are strongly influenced > by the posts > > here and on the forums by you, the cf "luminaries". > > > > > I have in fact advised a few people either within the > "Long time CF > > > supporter" thread and also outside of it during the last > couple of days, > > > to > > > "go ahead and try CFMX for themselves", despite having > some very obvious > > > problems myself - which, I am still working on solving at > the moment > after > > > 3 > > > days - I believe I'm starting to see where the major > problems lie now. > > > > Except your post of "try it for yourself" was drowned out > by plenty of > other > > people chanting the "MM sux and CFMX is poop" line. The > fact is that the > > posts made here and elsewhere directly effect those people > wanting to > "jump > > into CF" > > > > > Basically, there's a problem with the JDBC driver (thats pretty > obvious). > > > Whilst there is also a problem with installing CFMX on a > Server which > had > > > a > > > previous version of CF on it before, despite removing old > registry keys > > > and > > > directories. > > > > > > I believe Vernon has already picked up on these issues > and is going to > try > > > and raise them internally with MM. > > > > Yes, however, do not assume this will happen 100% of the > time, Vernon, > Sean, > > Mike and I are doing what we can, when we have time, but > this is not the > > best, or recommended way of getting things escalated! > > > > > I don't have a problem with MM. They're doing grand as > far as I can see, > > > considering their size. Maybe I'm just used to large corporate > bureaucracy > > > at this stage, with much much larger and slower entities (oil and > > > automotive > > > companies). Maybe too, I have come to take the cf-talk > list for granted > as > > > an effective channel for solving issues with CF - over > the years. I've > > > seen > > > issues raised on the list being actively tackled head on > by both MM and > > > Allaire in the past. Yes developers are looking for what > is effectively > > > "free" support - but it's support at a cost to the > developer in terms of > > > time etc - e.g. I've lost almost 3 days in my current > situation, but at > > > least I'm proactively ruling out things and feeding back > my findings to > > > the > > > people who may need that info i.e. MM or the CF Community. > > > > However, there is a distinct difference between rational > discourse, and a > > "mob mentality" when it comes to commenting on issues. > > > > My point is simple, take the posts here and elsewhere with > a grain of > salt, > > realize that many of these people are not the rule, rather > the exception. > > > > Most of all, watch what you post, you, as community > members, effect the > > perception of CF as a *whole*. > > > > The community runs under the "mob" system, while 25 people > may run fine > and > > say so, 100 people are screaming about $RAND issues. The 25 > are ignored, > and > > the 100 are taken as gospel. > > > > See what I mean? > > > > > > > > Jesse Noller > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Macromedia Server Development > > > > "No concept man forms is valid unless he > > integrates it without contradiction into the > > sum of his knowledge." > > - Ayn Rand > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
