> Not necessarily. As a developer you can continue to build robust > ColdFusion applications without having to worry about the J2EE > underpinnings.
I disagree with this statement. I have had to learn a great deal about JRun to develop in and host on ColdFusion MX. I have justified it with the "well, ColdFusion MX is a complete rewrite from scratch" excuse. Nevertheless, I had to become intimate with the JRun config files, Axis error messages, etc. Again, I don't think this is the end of the world. I'm just stating my experience. I don't think my experience is exceptional...but this wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. :) > Although even in older versions some CFML like COM > integration would return equally obtuse errors (AutomationException > 0xF2E57770AD). Stack traces often follow friendly ColdFusion error > messages, so while the stack could be helpful if you want it, you still > have a readable error message.(1) Perhaps this is true, but I generally found those COM errors much easier to decipher than stack traces. In general, I found ColdFusion 5 error messages much more accurate than those in ColdFusion MX. I think that's to be expected with a complete rewrite. In fact, I think it's perfectly acceptable. > Not sure what you mean here. CF Mappings are still handled through the > CFAdmin. Perhaps you mean "JRun virtual mappings" ? Yes, ColdFusion mappings are still handled through the ColdFusion administrator. However, ColdFusion mappings are/were ignored in *many* situations. Since the initial release of ColdFusion MX, there have been several bug fixes to this extent. I believe the cfimport issue was fixed in 6.1. Nevertheless, I still run into problems where, for instance, invoking a component locally works. However, if I invoke it as a web service, it fails unless all the mappings referenced in the component are also set up in JRun. If you run only a single site on your server, then the "/" mapping, which is set up in ColdFusion and JRun by default, will always work. However, if you run multiples sites on a single server, then you will need to set up explicit mappings for each site since, obviously, only one site can use the "/" mapping. Again, my point here is that ColdFusion MX really feels like a language interpreter sitting on top of J2EE and the JVM. Before your earlier posts, I was convinced that I had to know a great deal about J2EE (and JRun in particular) to build and host ColdFusion apps. Now I see that I need to know more about the JVM than I currently know to host them. > If you'd like to become more familiar with the J2EE underpinnings, the > Devnet articles (http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/coldfusion/) are > probably the best first choice. For learning Java development try "Java > for ColdFusion Developers", ISBN 0130461806. I've read most of the applicable DevNet articles. I've purchased the aforementioned book. It is a very, very bad book, full of examples that will not compile and poor metaphors. I don't consider myself a Java developer, but I knew more about Java than what the author was attempting to teach in that book. Anyway, I probably misstated my question. I'm looking for books and information on debugging JVM issues. I've learned enough about J2EE and JRun that I feel comfortable with these elements. However, the content of your earlier posts suggest that I need to learn a great deal more about the JVM than I already know. > Also, Hal Helms has an awesome course on Object Oriented Development with > ColdFusion, and of course CFDJ routinely offers easy to read articles that > cover all the bases (including OOCF from Hal). Uhg. I didn't say that I wasn't familiar with OOP. What does OOP even have to do with this discussion? Just as a point of reference, at this very moment, I have Core J2EE Patters, Domain Driven Design, Enterprise Integration Patterns, and Refactoring to Patterns sitting on my desk. I had let a friend borrow them, and he returned them just today. I simply don't consider myself a Java programmer. Consequently, I'm looking for discussions/books/information about the JVM that don't require an in-depth knowledge of Java. The tech notes that you pointed to are good -- if brief -- examples of this. I'm well aware that what I'm asking for might not exist. :) > All this said, I would expect most CF shops to invest some time in > understanding J2EE to save money on consulting so they can take advantage > of J2EE diagnostics available in CF. Frankly, I think those diagnostics > mentioned in my previous posts are far more helpful than what was > available in earlier versions of CF. Agreed. That's why I was willing to learn about J2EE when I first tackled ColdFusion MX. But it doesn't change the fact that I didn't know some of the debug and log files you referred to even existed until you mentioned them. It also doesn't change the fact that I need to know more about the JVM to understand them. > (1) ColdFusion aims to have clear and friendly error messages that are > helpful, although historically some of them have deviated from this goal: > - "waitpid() returned something nasty" when forking processes with > CFEXECUTE on Unix in CF4.5 > - > "CFTempOnlyForSetVariableNeverUseThisNameInYourCFMLCode1223334444555556543 > 21 > " in CF5 with <CFPARAM default="" name="url."> And once we realized what the error was trying to tell us the first time, we knew what to look for subsequent times. A lot of this is really just growing pains. I understand that. However, I don't think that mitigates the need to know a good deal about J2EE to build ColdFusion apps, nor the JVM to host them. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole "you have to know J2EE to program in ColdFusion" thing. But I'd still like some good resources on the JVM because I'm finding ColdFusion MX more troublesome as a hosting platform than ColdFusion 5. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:185371 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
