I have to disagree with that. Most developers (cf or otherwise) do not use every part of the language every day, so therefore you do not know all the functions, methods, attributes off the top of your head (unless your just a total nerd), this is why editors like homesite are handy, so you do not have to pull your manual/book out or search livedocs every time you forgot something. The difference between using notepad or a good editor like homesite can the difference between having adaquate code or great code because you had the right tool for the job.
That's like saying if you can't build a house with no mechnical machinary your not a real builder. Russ -----Original Message----- From: Eric Roberts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 June 2006 01:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF Studio 5 Homesite was originally designed for non-cf developers. It was also used by non-developers because it has a great interface. HS+ was a bit of an appeasement to the CF developers MM lied to when they trashed cf studio after assuring us they wouldn't. As far as open source goes, don't assume that I don't see the trend. I just don't like or agree that it is better. Why is it that if I am not doing my code in some bloated text editor that I am not really coding? I would say the opposite is true. If you can't do it in notepad, then you don't know how to code. You shouldn't rely on crutches. I make a lot of use out of the Jakarta Apache projects open source code. Like I said...most of the open source stuff is inconsistent...most does not mean all... If open source has won out, why does MS and non-open source Unix have the greater market share? In my 8 years of cf development, I have only run into 2 shops that use any open source software in their production environment. That doesn't sound like a win for open source to me. MMMPMMA, Eric -----Original Message----- From: Denny Valliant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 03 June 2006 16:49 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF Studio 5 On 6/3/06, Eric Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Its not an attitude...just an opinion. I am also not a big fan of > open source products in general. I have recommended cfeclipse to > people as it is not a bad product over all...I just don't like it. I > couldn't get...or at least figure out how to get, the cf part to work > right. I found the interface to be very non-intuitive and hard to > use. It does have potential. > I do like the fact that I can use it for multiple platforms...that is > pretty cool, though right now, I am not doing anything but cf, so that > does kill some of the cool factor for that. Packaged installs would > be good. I think a lot of us just don't like the whole Linux/open > source way of doing things when software is concerned. I find most > gnu licensed products are more trouble that they are worth to install > and get running(mysql being an exception). I find a lack of > consistency since you have multiple independent programmers working on > it. The concept is great, but like many things, they look better on > paper. Don't take it personally ;-) You do have a strong following > that really like cfeclipse. > > Blessings, > Eric Hi Eric, blessed be! This is one of those age old arguments, Open vs Closed, and there are tons of docs about development cycles and such, good reads. They even have names for the types of cycles and whatnot. I don't think your arguments hold water now adays tho. If they ever did. "Open" is so open, you'll find all types. By definition. Some are good, some not so good, but it's been a ton of fun watching the evolution. If you can't read the trends, you may still be thinking along old- school lines of thought. Old, biased lines of thought. For years I've been using "open" solutions. Just look at the Apache Group for more examples of stuff that "just works", like MySQL. Lots of examples. Any large project will have multiple contributor's, or programmers, no matter if it's open or closed. I don't see "closed" as having some intrinsic nature of consistency. That's a MS meme; that for some reason, people seem to buy into, even tho they USE MS products, and could obviously see the fallacy of that idea. OpenSource is the way of the future, and if you can't tell that by what's been going on for the last bit, you haven't been paying attention. I'm not saying everything will be free, but rather, that the people who believed, for some time, in the ultimate power of "open" vs. "closed", have been borne out, whereas, the folks who touted "closed is better", haven't. If you're really "doing cf", you should LOVE the awesome power of eclipse over HS+ or studio. If you're just note-padding it, for all intents and purposes, you aren't really coding. Heh, that's a statement. Seriously though, UML and all this nifty crap, made by coders, for coders, beats the pants off of some corporate, "name it something friendly, like 'HOMEsite'" type method. THAT's what turned me off of HS, really. The name. Coding isn't easy. "Home" makes it sound like a dumbed-down thing. Why not name it "PROsite". :-P At any rate, when a colleague and buddy said "there's an eclipse plugin for CF" (he doens't even do CF much) I was all over it. It seemed "manly". LOL. Really though, if installing a java runtime is that difficult... there's something wrong. I hope you run an instance of cf locally, and use source control and such, but if not... I've got another colleague/friend who, do to being comfortable with "the old way", has really been lagging on picking up the new design flow. Insists on editing live stuff on the production server, leaves temp files, etc.. Sees the power of the new stuff, but for some reason, hasn't shown initiative in taking it to the next level. But a decision from on high has changed things (really it was just the effects of doing things "the old way"), so now my friend will have to get a crash-course, vs. a nice, lazy introduction. If you're interested, open source has probably furthered the "coding"-ness of coding 1000x fold. It was obvious years ago (to me) that sharing info would do that. Guess the main thing people have a problem with is figuring out that when they help other people, they help themselves as well. So it's cool that you tout the MS line about open source, but you are totally wrong on every count, if you ask me. If you are serious. I just can't see how you could say it looks good on paper, but not in reality, when it's pretty blatant that OpenSource will be a key factor in what's to come (And has really proven itself, (as if it needed to). Sorry to come off so hard. This is more of an emotional response than a productive one, but I'm finding out the hard way that if you want to be a real coder, you have to get with the program. Open Source is here, it's queer (how do I get $$?), get used to it. And GPL is just a license, it's pretty unfair to try to link a licence to software quality. That's not Bud, that's not True. What looked good on paper, is looking even better in real life, and keeps on looking better. Well, that was a rant, sorry, but I had to respond in kind, as it didn't seem like much research went into your post. No hard feelings, don't take it personal, just an exchange of rantings, if'n that don't bother folks. Opensource is something that isn't just linux any more. This is a big factor for CF based products as well. Eh. 'Nuff said ;-) :Denleg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:242301 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
