Don't know what you mean - it was Richard Bremner who started this one :-)
Don't shoot the messenger . . . And y'all have fun down at WebDU. Really disappointed to be missing it this year. Will have to try to get down for 2009! Best Wishes, Peter On May 6, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Dale Fraser wrote: > > What are you guys talking about, > > That was the best flame war of 2008. > > I really think Geoff should ban Peter Bell for starting it :P > > Regards > Dale Fraser > http://learncf.com > http://flexcf.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf > Of Zac Spitzer > Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 10:01 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: ColdFusion Isn't a Programming Language? > > > here here Scott! > > On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> Q. Can you solve customers needs with Coldfusion? >> >> If the answer is yes, who gives a toss as to what bucket it fits >> in, let >> folks waste time thinking about that - whilst not doing any work or > getting >> paid - and you do the opposite :) >> >> besides this debate comes around every 3 months doesn't it? >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Rae Buerckner <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> wrote: >> >>> I'll also try and track down the stuff from lawyers etc for you, >>> I'm a > bit >> of a hoarder as far as emails go, I've got everything way back to >> 97. On >> another computer though. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:42 AM, Rae Buerckner <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> > >> wrote: >>> >>>> It was in the context of whether an application written in >>>> ColdFusion >> was software, in the that context the copyright laws for software >> apply. >> And according to Ben Forta an application written in ColdFusion is >> indeed >> software. >>>> >>>> Following from the Australian Copyright Council, I've attached the > full >> information sheet for you. >>>> >>>> Computer programs are protected as "literary works". The >>>> Copyright Act >> defines a computer program as: >>>> "a set of statements or instructions to be used directly or >>>> indirectly >> in a computer in order to bring >>>> about a certain result." >>>> >>>> R >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:36 AM, Michael Dinowitz >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Could you send me some information on that? I'm putting together >>>>> an >> article on this which will include the emails I've had with tiobe and >> hopefully an interview with them. If the legal definition in >> Australia is > as >> a programming language then I'd like to include it. Was the >> definition for >> ColdFusion or CFML? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Rae Buerckner >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Bryn, >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually went through a whole legal process regarding this back > in >> 1999, and yes as far as Australian Copyright is concerned CF is in >> fact a >> programming language. My point has been that it really doesn't >> matter > what >> labels you give it, it gets the job done amazingly well, and in ultra > quick >> time. >>>>>> >>>>>> As far as I am concerned CF rocks, and we as an australian > community >> of hmmmm... am I a developer any more... I guess not, we need to stop > saying >> this stuff about CF, it is what it is, and is according to Tim >> Buntell > being >> positioned by Adobe as the glue for all of their enterprise RIA >> platform > (I >> don't know how true that is though I read it on somebody elses >> blog, but > it >> does make perfect sense to me and explains all the new integration >> in CF >> since MX6). Anybody who doesn't know what the Adobe Enterpise RIA > Platform >> is email me I'll email you the slides Tim sent me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> R >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 6:57 PM, bryn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm sorry, I fail to see what the heated argument is about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have always known there are self-serving purists out there > that >> do >>>>>>> not like Cold Fusion >>>>>>> because of all of its highly competitive and productive > qualities >> when >>>>>>> it comes to delivering robust web applications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fact is that Cold Fusion is many things that are not mutually >>>>>>> exclusive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is a web applications server, it is also a framework, and it >> can be >>>>>>> programmed using several 'languages' (or variants or dialects - >>>>>>> whatever you like). >>>>>>> CFML, CFSCRIPT/ECMAScript, Actionscript to name the main ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It fulfills the broad definition of a programming language > (given >> in >>>>>>> the wikipedia link in an earlier reply). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has a rich function library that is the main reason it is so >>>>>>> productive when it comes to building real world applications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It can be extended by writing programs in other languages, - > Java, >> C+ >>>>>>> + , C^ and such extensions effectively become a part of the >> libraries >>>>>>> that form the language. Most modern computer languages are > based >> upon >>>>>>> libraries, which themselves are often written using other >> languages >>>>>>> (such as assembler at the most basic level). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The original link uses a somewhat purist approach re 'Turing >> Complete' >>>>>>> that appears to be invalid in that a programming language does > not >>>>>>> have to be turing complete to be a language. The term Turing >> complete >>>>>>> refers to an ability in a programming system to solve every >> problem in >>>>>>> the universe (see >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness) >>>>>>> and generally irrelevant when describing a programming language. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is no case for eleiminating Cold Fusion from a list of >> computer >>>>>>> languages in common use, as the facts speak otherwise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One therefore calls into question the process used to compile > the >>>>>>> TIOBE list and suggest that perhaps it may be somewhat less than >>>>>>> objective. >>>>>>> Ot perhaps its mission is not clearly defined. When I searched, > I >> was >>>>>>> unable to find an original representation of the said TIOBE list >> so if >>>>>>> anyone can point me to it I'd be grateful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears this list wants to deliver a ranking order of >> popularity of >>>>>>> various means to deliver web applications. Since CF is clearly >> such a >>>>>>> means it belongs on the list. End of story. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No need for an internal debate/fight among CF programmers > dismayed >> at >>>>>>> possibly a losss of prestige, we should be discussing the means >>>>>>> necessary to set TIOBE right, that is, assuming said TIOBE list >>>>>>> matters at all to anyone except the analy retentive few that > want >> to >>>>>>> argue the finer points. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FWIW, >>>>>>> Bryn Parrott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 5, 2:31 pm, Peter Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Has anyone else seen anything about this?! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> http://www.pbell.com/index.cfm/2008/5/5/ColdFusion-Isnt-a- >> Programming... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Michael Dinowitz (http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) >>>>> President: House of Fusion (http://www.houseoffusion.com) >>>>> Publisher: Fusion Authority (http://www.fusionauthority.com) >>>>> Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion >>>>> Professional >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Zac Spitzer - > http://zacster.blogspot.com (My Blog) > +61 405 847 168 > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. 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