I think Dale isn't that far off - I've trained for registered training organizations and they pay less than $100 an hour for however many students are in the class (usually a limit of 4 or 5 and topend limit of 8-10 due thats all the machines they have in a lab).
The students are paying a few hundred a day each (usually two day courses) you have about 6 hours teaching between breaks and the trainer is responsible for the course curriculum / ad hoc machine support etc. Sometimes there is setup time - but travel time is long gone. Not lucrative but its work. Inhouse stuff seems to be about 50% more but usually in less controlled circumstance and you usually dont have machines to distract the kids ;). So not neccesarily as expensive as some here suggest. dan On 28 November 2012 12:34, <cfaussie@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Today's Topic Summary > > Group: http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/topics > > - cfx_http5 issue with SOAP XML > posting<#13b44a698a82a282_group_thread_0>[1 Update] > - What the ColdFusion community needs more > of...<#13b44a698a82a282_group_thread_1>[12 Updates] > > cfx_http5 issue with SOAP XML > posting<http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/t/2659a5865caaf3b2> > > Hitesh <hiteshpatel1...@gmail.com> Nov 27 08:32AM -0800 > > Hi there, > > I have below example to post XML to SSL URL using CFX_HTTP5. When I > post it > generates two variables : RESULT & STATUS. > STATUS is OK while RESULT variables is EMPTY. > > What could be wrong here? > > ------------- code start --------------- > > <cfsavecontent variable="xmlRequest"><SOAP:Envelope > xmlns:SOAP="urn:schemas-xmlsoap-org:soap.v1"><SOAP:Header> > <AccountNumber>XXXXXXX</AccountNumber> > <AuthorisationCode>XXXXXXX</AuthorisationCode> > <Source>xs</Source> > </SOAP:Header> > <SOAP:Body> > <PostAdvert> > <Adverts> > <Advert> > <MarketID>01</MarketID> > <AccountNumber>XXXXXX</AccountNumber> > <AdvertiserID/> > <Contact>RECRUITadvantage > Administrator</Contact> > <Telephone/> > <Fax/> > <Email/> > <EmailComments/> > <Position>Test Job 1 - Jobserve New - DO NOT > APPLY</Position> > <Skills/> > <SkillsExtra/> > <HtmlSkills><![CDATA[<p>Test Job 1 - Jobserve > New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - > Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest > Job 1 > - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest > Job > 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve > NewTest > Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve > NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - > Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test > Job 1 > - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test > Job > 1 - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New > Test > Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve > New > Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - > Jobserve > New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New</p><p> </p><p>Test Job 1 - Jobserve New > Test > Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - Jobserve > New > Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - > Jobserve > New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest Job 1 - > Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest > Job 1 > - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve NewTest > Job > 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve > NewTest > Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve New Test Job 1 - Jobserve > New</p>]]></HtmlSkills> > <Location>Sydney</Location> > <CountryCode>AUS</CountryCode> > <PostZipCode/> > <Reference>669/AU1298RA000007</Reference> > <StartDate>ASAP</StartDate> > <Duration>18 MONTHS</Duration> > <Rate>$140/hour</Rate> > <Type>C</Type> > > <URL> > http://webdev02:669/job/apply_job_online.cfm?id=474757&from=JobServeNew > </URL> > <Categories/> > <FastTrack> > <ApplyOnline>0</ApplyOnline> > <ApplyOnlineEmail></ApplyOnlineEmail> > <ApplyOnlineTemplate></ApplyOnlineTemplate> > </FastTrack> > <Configuration> > <AlternativeName/> > <VISARequired/> > > <ReferFriend/> > > <CustomJobID>669/AU1298RA000007</CustomJobID> > <NumberOfReAds>3</NumberOfReAds> > <SecondaryMarketID>03</SecondaryMarketID> > <TertiaryMarketID>11</TertiaryMarketID> > </Configuration> > <Consultant> > > <ConsultantEmail>RECRUITadvantage</ConsultantEmail> > > <ConsultantFirstName>Administrator</ConsultantFirstName> > > <ConsultantLastName>t...@gmail.com</ConsultantLastName> > </Consultant> > </Advert> > </Adverts> > </PostAdvert> > </SOAP:Body> > </SOAP:Envelope> > </cfsavecontent> > > > <cfset CFXheader="Content-Type: text/xml; > charset=utf-8#Chr(13)##Chr(10)#"> > <cfset CFXheader="#CFXheader#Accept-Encoding: *#Chr(13)##Chr(10)#"> > <cfset CFXheader="#CFXheader#TE: deflate;q=0#Chr(13)##Chr(10)#"> > <cfset CFXheader="#CFXheader#SOAPMethodName: > PostAdvert#Chr(13)##Chr(10)#"> > > <cfx_http5 url="https://xml.jobserve.com"; headers="#CFXheader#" > body="#Trim(xmlRequest)#" out="result"> > > <cfdump var="#result#"><br> > > <cfoutput> > status = #status# <br> > <cfif status EQ "ER"> > <h3>Error: #errn#<br>Message: #msg#</h3> > </cfif> > </cfoutput> > > ----------------------- code ends --------------- > > Can you please help on this why the SSL URL returning empty response > back > to me? > > Thanks, > Hitesh > > > > What the ColdFusion community needs more > of...<http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/t/e6d94eb7b17be192> > > "Dale Fraser" <d...@fraser.id.au> Nov 26 10:31PM -0500 > > Not through their training partners. > > The problem with training guys is they want $1k per person per day > > Why should they earn $10k per day. Adobe should pay a trainer $1k per > day > and let heaps of people go for free. > > I tried to organise similar training once, pay the trainer a good > daily rate > and get them to train 10 people, but no trainer is greedy and wants a > per > person fee. > > Sorry no dice. > > Regards > Dale Fraser > > http://dale.fraser.id.au > > -----Original Message----- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf > Of Barry Beattie > Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 6:10 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... > > > On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to > do > > such a course. > > the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. > I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until > recently. It > happens. > > > If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different > story. > > now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training > partners, surely to keep them onside? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > > > > > "Dale Fraser" <d...@fraser.id.au> Nov 26 10:34PM -0500 > > I'll prefix this by saying I like Railo and think it has something to > offer. > > > > However moving from a niche product ColdFusion to an even more niche > product > Railo certainly holds risk. > > > > I wonder how many people would use Railo if ColdFusion were free. > > > > Regards > > Dale Fraser > > > > http://dale.fraser.id.au > > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf > Of M@ Bourke > Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 6:17 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... > > > > Coldfusion needs more of a move to the OSS servers, and people hanging > with > other OSS devs and telling them about Railo etc. > > I go to several different language groups where I live, if I say I use > coldfusion they're stunned and the conversation ends there, if I say > "I use > Railo its an open source Coldfusion server" "oh really?" "yeah there > is more > than one open source server plus one Adobe still makes" > > > > fortunately the last 2 conferences I went to, over 70% of devs were > using > Railo commercially, the tide is turning fast > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Barry Beattie < > barry.beat...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to > do > such a > > course. > > the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. > I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until > recently. It happens. > > > > If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different > story. > > now you're talking, although it would have to be through their > training partners, surely to keep them onside? > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:cfaussie%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > > > > > Mark Mandel <mark.man...@gmail.com> Nov 27 02:42PM +1100 > > I hate to point this out but... > > Why would a student bet his future on a programming language that is > such a > small part of the global programming community? Statistically, it just > doesn't make any sense. > > Especially at that price? > > > > > > -- > E: mark.man...@gmail.com > T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic > W: www.compoundtheory.com > > 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast > http://www.2ddu.com/ > > > > > Kai Koenig <grmblz...@gmail.com> Nov 27 05:17PM +1300 > > Not sure sure which trainers would try to charge 1k per person per > day, that's quite outrageous. > > However, Dale - to expect a good trainer to charge you 1k for a day > and you can put 10 people in the room is quite unrealistic, too. > > Instructing is always a balance from a trainer's point of view: > > a) Opportunity cost (if one could earn 1k per day from development > work, why would they offer a training for the same rate) > > b) Teach-yourself-out-of-work cost: Why would one train other > developers "to do their job" for only a small amount of money more than > doing development work themselves. > > Just to give you an idea, depending on the technology I personally > charge between 1500-2000 per day for in-house training plus all travel and > accommodation cost. That would usually cover a group of up to 6 people, if > the client wants to put more people into the course there'd be additional > charges. This model seems to work very well. If you happen to find that too > expensive for quality tuition that'd be fair enough; we just won't get > together then based on such a model :-) > > Please note that this all refers to inhouse-training only. Training > booked and provided through a 3rd part training company with "publicly" > held and bookable courses is a totally different game again. > > Cheers > Kai > > > > > -- > Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd > ph: +64 4 889 3626 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 435 179 091 > web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz > > Blog in Black: http://www.bloginblack.de > 2DDU Podcast: http://www.2ddu.com/ > Twitter: @AgentK > -- > > > > > Kai Koenig <grmblz...@gmail.com> Nov 27 05:27PM +1300 > > > > Why would a student bet his future on a programming language that is > such a small part of the global programming community? Statistically, it > just doesn't make any sense. > > > Especially at that price? > > Are you talking about the Rails link floating around or about a > potential CFML version of it? > > I'd say it's the wrong thing to do/offer/attend either way to be > honest. > > Cheers > Kai > > > -- > Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd > ph: +64 4 889 3626 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 435 179 091 > web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz > > Blog in Black: http://www.bloginblack.de > 2DDU Podcast: http://www.2ddu.com/ > Twitter: @AgentK > -- > > > > > Mark Mandel <mark.man...@gmail.com> Nov 27 03:32PM +1100 > > The potential cfml version of it. > > I've head a lot of ruby people say that Rails is starting to show it's > gray > hairs (probably due it's monolithic stack), but Ruby has far and wide > penetration and an enormous community (especially here in Melbourne it > seems), so it still has a fair amount of momentum in it for sure. > > > > -- > E: mark.man...@gmail.com > T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic > W: www.compoundtheory.com > > 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast > http://www.2ddu.com/ > > > > > Kai Koenig <grmblz...@gmail.com> Nov 27 05:38PM +1300 > > Well fair enough, but still - would you book an 8 week Rails course > with random promises as made on that site without knowing about who's > behind it, who the teachers are etc...? :) > > > > > > > Mark Mandel <mark.man...@gmail.com> Nov 27 03:45PM +1100 > > Oh that's a totally different problem! > > I just made the assumption that the training was good. > > Mark > > > -- > E: mark.man...@gmail.com > T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic > W: www.compoundtheory.com > > 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast > http://www.2ddu.com/ > > > > > AJ Mercer <ajmer...@gmail.com> Nov 27 12:47PM +0800 > > I feel a 2ddu podcast brewing ;-) > > > > -- > > *AJ Mercer* > <webonix:net strength="Industrial" /> <http://webonix.net> | > <webonix:org > community="Open" /> <http://webonix.org> > http://twitter.com/webonix > Railo Community Manager < > http://www.getrailo.org/index.cfm/community/team/> > > > > > Mark Mandel <mark.man...@gmail.com> Nov 27 03:48PM +1100 > > Might be ;) > > Mark > > > > -- > E: mark.man...@gmail.com > T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic > W: www.compoundtheory.com > > 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast > http://www.2ddu.com/ > > > > > "Dale Fraser" <d...@fraser.id.au> Nov 27 09:11AM -0500 > > No Kai, > > > > I think your proposal is reasonable, its just not what I've seen here. > > > > It was $10k for 10 people, perhaps for 1 it would have been $2k or $3k > not > sure, but $1k per person per day wasn't reasonable. > > > > Their justification it was less expensive than sending everyone to the > offsite course. > > > > Regards > > Dale Fraser > > > > http://dale.fraser.id.au > > > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf > Of Kai Koenig > Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 11:18 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... > > > > Not sure sure which trainers would try to charge 1k per person per day, > that's quite outrageous. > > > > However, Dale - to expect a good trainer to charge you 1k for a day > and you > can put 10 people in the room is quite unrealistic, too. > > > > Instructing is always a balance from a trainer's point of view: > > > > a) Opportunity cost (if one could earn 1k per day from development > work, why > would they offer a training for the same rate) > > > > b) Teach-yourself-out-of-work cost: Why would one train other > developers "to > do their job" for only a small amount of money more than doing > development > work themselves. > > > > Just to give you an idea, depending on the technology I personally > charge > between 1500-2000 per day for in-house training plus all travel and > accommodation cost. That would usually cover a group of up to 6 > people, if > the client wants to put more people into the course there'd be > additional > charges. This model seems to work very well. If you happen to find > that too > expensive for quality tuition that'd be fair enough; we just won't get > together then based on such a model :-) > > > > Please note that this all refers to inhouse-training only. Training > booked > and provided through a 3rd part training company with "publicly" held > and > bookable courses is a totally different game again. > > > > Cheers > > Kai > > > > > > > > > > Not through their training partners. > > The problem with training guys is they want $1k per person per day > > Why should they earn $10k per day. Adobe should pay a trainer $1k per > day > and let heaps of people go for free. > > I tried to organise similar training once, pay the trainer a good > daily rate > and get them to train 10 people, but no trainer is greedy and wants a > per > person fee. > > Sorry no dice. > > Regards > Dale Fraser > > http://dale.fraser.id.au > > -----Original Message----- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf > Of Barry Beattie > Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012 6:10 PM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] What the ColdFusion community needs more of... > > > > > On another note who in the world can take 10 weeks off full time to do > > such a course. > > > the unemployed, students, etc. I was four months unemployed last year. > I was three months unemployed (thanks, Can-Do Campbell!) until > recently. It > happens. > > > > > If Adobe were to sponsor / subsidise this it would be a different > story. > > > now you're talking, although it would have to be through their training > partners, surely to keep them onside? > > > -- > Kai Koenig - Ventego Creative Ltd > ph: +64 4 889 3626 - mob: +64 21 928 365 / +61 435 179 091 > web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz > > Blog in Black: http://www.bloginblack.de > 2DDU Podcast: http://www.2ddu.com/ > Twitter: @AgentK > -- > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > > > > > "M@ Bourke" <m.electronic.at.sym...@gmail.com> Nov 27 02:20PM > > Personally I'm not a fan of training, its great for some people, > everyone > has different ways of learning, my last company offered us either > several > days of training a year or several days to go and study at home. > I chose the latter. > > I'd rather my employer (when I'm an employee) to simply say "sit at > your > desk and learn x for 2 days" > than be in a class where its simply "copy code from a course book into > a > computer and not really pay too much attention to what it is" I know > that > isn't the idea of a course lol but its how I find them. > > different strokes for different folks. > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group > cfaussie. > You can post via email <cfaussie@googlegroups.com>. > To unsubscribe from this group, send<cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>an > empty message. > For more options, visit <http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie/topics>this > group. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. 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