<peeve value="++"/>

>A one time array languages did have a mass audience. Then spreadsheets swept 
>all the hoi polloi and their spaghetti code elshwhere. my impression is that 
>the formalism is not flexible enough to have the strings attached in the adhoc 
>manner required of real world problems. Maybe a marriage with Scheme would 
>work better. Sorta K`ish.

greg
~krsnadas.org

--

from: Kenneth Lettow <[email protected]>
to: [email protected]
date: 22 October 2013 20:05
subject: Re: [Jchat] <small rant> Is it worth it to engage idiots over
moronic comments about array languages?

True, but I think the effect can be cumulative.

--

from: Roger Hui <[email protected]>
to: Chat Forum <[email protected]>
date: 22 October 2013 20:01
subject: Re: [Jchat] <small rant> Is it worth it to engage idiots over
moronic comments about array languages?

>> I usually refrain from commenting on articles/posts like these, as nothing 
>> good usually comes from it, but it still irritates me that there may be some 
>> people whose first exposure to array languages may come from idiotic 
>> comments like this one.

>Look at it this way:  The people whose first exposure to array languages come 
>from such comments and then decide to make it their last, how big a loss to 
>the array languages community is that?

--

from: Kenneth Lettow <[email protected]> via forums.jsoftware.com
reply-to: [email protected]
to: [email protected]
date: 22 October 2013 19:48
subject: [Jchat] <small rant> Is it worth it to engage idiots over
moronic comments about array languages?

>I still consider myself relatively new to array languages, especially when 
>compared to the estimable members of these forums.  I have learned a great 
>deal from the languages, as well as the incredibly helpful user communities 
>that support them.

>The one thing that always chafes my ass is when I come across negative 
>comments about array languages when reading a general interest article on the 
>web.

Here is one I came across today.

>http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2013/10/healthcare_gov_problems_what_5_million_lines_of_code_really_means.html

quote from the article:

On the other hand, here’s a line of APL (“A Programming
Language<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language)>”)
> code:
> (~R?R°.×R)/R?1??R
> That code prints out all the prime numbers from 1 to R. APL is a
> notoriously terse and nightmarish language. I have successfully avoided
> ever coding in it. One single line of APL code could contain half a dozen
> bugs.

>Clearly, this guy has never used APL, yet he has no problem dumping on it even 
>after stating that he has avoided ever coding in it.

I want to know what the origin of this negativity is?

>Did array'ers go around bullying programmers of other languages at conferences 
>before I began using J?  Did Ken Iverson pee in Dijkstra's coffee cup in 
>1968<http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/chat/2007-November/000633.html> ?

>I usually refrain from commenting on articles/posts like these, as nothing 
>good usually comes from it, but it still irritates me that there may be some 
>people whose first exposure to array languages may come from idiotic comments 
>like this one.

<end rant>
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