hi Obaid,
That doesn't quite answer everything.
I understand that it isn't used for a password set for a new user, but I
think it is used for a password *reset* for an existing user.
My understanding is a password reset doesn't require the existing
password, and it ignores or wipes password history. A password change
requires the user enter their old password and checks it against history.
A password change in Entra ID using the self-service password reset
writeback system wants to enforce on-premises password policy, even
though it is not providing the old password to the on-prem AD server:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/entra/identity/authentication/concept-sspr-writeback
Enforcement of on-premises Active Directory Domain Services (AD DS)
password policies: When a user resets their password, it's checked to
ensure it meets your on-premises AD DS policy before committing it to
that directory. This review includes checking the history, complexity,
age, password filters, and any other password restrictions that you
define in AD DS.
I *think* it does this by sending a reset message with the OID, and the
OID means "this reset should check policy as if it were a change". But
MS-SAMR 3.1.1.7.1 doesn't mention it. Should it? that was my original
question.
Now that I look at that passage again, it seems like the OID should also
affect the minimum password length constraint in MS-SAMR 3.1.1.7.1, but
MS-ADTS does not mention that (just the history). The complexity and
"other password restrictions" looks to refer to MS-SAMR 3.1.1.7.2, which
doesn't use the language of "change" or "set", but says "this constraint
is referenced when a cleartext password is updated". Should MS-ADTS also
mention that? Or is the self-service password reset document wrong?
I am not able to get a trace of the this happening with Entra ID, but I
have seen a pcap showing that the (deprecated) OID is set in this case.
I am able to write a test case that mimics it.
cheers,
Douglas
On 15/10/25 12:31, Obaid Farooqi wrote:
Hi Douglas:
Based on my research LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID is only used for change
password. I did not see evidence for it to be used in the add scenario for a
new user. This is based on code browsing.
I have filed a bug to fix MS-ADTS. If my above assumption is incorrect (highly
unlikely) and the control is used for both set and change, I'll update you.
Please let me know if this does not answer your question.
Regards,
Obaid Farooqi
Sr. Escalation Engineer | Microsoft
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Bagnall <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2025 6:38 PM
To: Obaid Farooqi <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]; Microsoft Support <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] [EXTERNAL] [MS-SAMR] 3.1.1.7.1 General Password
Policy -- interaction with LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID -
TrackingID#2509240040013358
hi again.
I noticed from this message to the Samba users list
https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2024-August/249724.html
that Keycloak also uses the LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID.
The way they document it is "if [some option is] on, then updating password of
MSAD user will use LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID extension, which means that advanced
MSAD password policies like 'password history'
or 'minimal password age' will be applied. This extension works just for MSAD 2008
R2 or newer."
(https://github.com/keycloak/keycloak/blob/main/js/apps/admin-ui/maven-resources/theme/keycloak.v2/admin/messages/messages_en.properties#L97).
I guess Keycloak is trying to do the same thing as Entra, enforcing password
change semantics without giving AD the old password.
Douglas
On 1/10/25 10:33, Douglas Bagnall via cifs-protocol wrote:
hi Obaid,
Thanks for looking.
If it helps, Azure Self-Service Password Reset does set the control
(actually LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_DEPRECATED_OID which does the same
thing) when doing a password set.
I think maybe it looks like a password change on the Entra side (that
is, the user needs their old password), but Entra wants to forward the
change as an unconditional set but maintain history.
This page
https://lear/
n.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fentra%2Fidentity%2Fauthentication%2F&data=05
%7C02%7Cobaidf%40microsoft.com%7C37bbfc9a6456405eed3508de06c3c419%7C72
f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638955635072994735%7CUnknown%
7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4z
MiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WyH8Xrqt8E9lJy
%2FS%2F5aPpuOXRis2oIV%2FeEDytOpGQEc%3D&reserved=0
troubleshoot-sspr-writeback#if-the-source-of-the-event-is-adsync
talks a bit about it around "33008 ADPasswordPolicyError". Elsewhere
it mentions LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID but gives it the value
1.2.840.113556.1.4.2066 which is the one now called _DEPRECATED_,
presumably because the oid is also used for the ms-DS-Required-Domain-
Behavior-Version attribute.
Douglas
On 1/10/25 10:02, Obaid Farooqi wrote:
Hi Douglas:
To me, the quote from MS-ADTS looks more problematic than the MS-SMAR's.
There will not be a password history if we are setting a password.
I am looking into it and I think this is a bug in MS-ADTS.
Regards,
Obaid Farooqi
Sr. Escalation Engineer | Microsoft
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bowen <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2025 6:17 PM
To: Douglas Bagnall <[email protected]>; cifs-
[email protected]
Cc: Microsoft Support <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [MS-SAMR] 3.1.1.7.1 General Password Policy
-- interaction with LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID -
TrackingID#2509240040013358
[DocHelp to bcc]
Hi Douglas,
Thanks for your question. I've created case number 2509240040013358
to track this issue. Please leave the number in the subject line and
use reply all your correspondence. One of our engineers will contact
you soon.
Best regards,
Michael Bowen
Sr. Escalation Engineer - Microsoft(r) Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Bagnall <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2025 3:39 PM
To: Interoperability Documentation Help <[email protected]>;
cifs- [email protected]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [MS-SAMR] 3.1.1.7.1 General Password Policy --
interaction with LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID
hi Dochelp,
MS-ADTS 3.1.1.3.4.1.27 says that when LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID is
used with a control value of 1, the password history length
constraint is enforced on password-set operations.
I think that means at the bottom of MS-SAMR 3.1.1.7.1 General
Password Policy, where it says:
5. The requesting protocol message is a password change (as compared
to a password set).
it should say something like
5. The requesting protocol message is a password change (as compared
to a password set), or the message is a password set with the
LDAP_SERVER_POLICY_HINTS_OID control set with the value 0x1.
Is that right?
Douglas
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