> In any well-considered educational endeavor, the program will consist of two > kinds of knowledge. One kind is the obvious -- you want the students to > achieve mastery. Even after the classes/training are over, and they've been > away from it in their work for some time, you want them to *know* that > material. > > For other knowledge the goal is familiarity, not mastery. Down the road, you > don't necessarily expect them to remember all the details, but you do want > them to recognize the material when they run into it, have a clue what it's > about, know where to look for the information they need to work with it, and > be confident they can use the information under those circumstances because, > "They learned it once, they'll be able to refresh/deepen their knowledge > when necessary and be productive." > > Whether by design or accident (most likely the test is just old), I think > the CCIE written will help candidates achieve familiarity with a lot of > material they "may well run into at some point," whereas the lab, which > motivates much more studying, will help them achieve mastery of the most > important topics. > > I'm still chewing on my CCNP, but in my job in a large NOC, we had one very > large network (Fortune 50) running DEC, IS-IS and a few X.25 lines, several > banking customers who used SDLC/DLSW for their ATM machines, some Appletalk, > and some other odd stuff. IMHO, it's not a bad idea at all that Cisco > guarantees that CCIE's have been exposed to all of this at least once. didn't know you could encapsulate ATM inside SDLC/DLSW ;-) > > FWIW, > doctorcisco > > > >From: "Chuck Larrieu" > >Reply-To: "Chuck Larrieu" > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756] > >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:10:27 -0400 > > > >This of course presumes it is in Cisco's interest to make the test > >"relevant". > > > >Reminds a bit of the arguments we used to make in college and grad school. > >My major is X, so why should I be required to take classes in Y? The answer > >is BECAUSE! :-> > > > >Right or wrong, relevant or not, the fact is that if you want the reward, > >then part of the requirement is to put up with the crap. > > > >Chuck > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > >g_study > >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:19 PM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756] > > > >Mr.Bad Attitude, > > > > I never said the lab was outdated. I have never used web based utilities > >to > >configure routers. All I said was the written test was outdated. They need > >to update it. I didn't say make it easier. I asked why they still test us > >on > >outdated technologies. I would rather spend my time studying BGP then how > >to > >read a RIF. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Louie Belt" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 5:17 PM > >Subject: RE: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756] > > > > > > > And a calculator can do math for you, but would you substitute your > > > knowledge of math for a dependancy on a calculator? If all you want to > >do > > > is follow the suggestions of a sniffer, then do so. If you want to > >learn > > > networking then invest the time to undertand what it is the sniffer is > > > telling you. I assume from your comments you would also prefer to use > >the > > > web based configuration utilities for switches and routers - that way > >you > > > don't have to know the syntax. I guess the CCIE lab is outdated as > >well. > > > > > > Louie > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > > Brian > > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 5:30 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756] > > > > > > > > > exactly, I was just talking about this with a study partner, and the > > > obsession with bits in the header is really deep here, and the canonical > > > inversion stuff makes my brain hurt. I would think most packet sniffers > > > would do this for you. > > > > > > Brian "Sonic" Whalen > > > Success = Preparation + Opportunity > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > > > > > > > At 04:59 PM 5/24/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > >But do I really need to know how to read a RIF? How often do you read > >a > > > RIF? > > > > > > > > I don't think so. That's one of the silliest topics, in my opinion. If > >you > > > > had to read a RIF you would use a protocol analyzer that would decode > >it > > > > for you. > > > > > > > > >I know some day you could run into a situation where you really need > >to > > > know > > > > >how to read a RIF or know how to configure Apollo, Banyan VINES or > >XNS. > >I > > > > >guess I am just frustrated with the trivial parts of this test. > > > > > > > > > >Does anyone else out there feel this way about this test? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" > > > > >To: > > > > >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:49 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just from a learning standpoint, I agree the lab and written > >should > > > > > > coincide. Perhaps a desktop/legacy specialization might be in > >order. > > > > > > > > > > > > But there's a finite amount that people can learn and demonstrate, > > > > > > and frankly, I'd rather see somewhat more depth in IP, and also > >MPLS, > > > > > > than having lots and lots of depth yet being somewhat superficial > >in > > > > > > the things you need to know about really big networks. Perhaps my > > > > > > design bias is showing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do wonder about X.25. There's an old Army saying that you never > > > > > > need a pistol until you need one very, very much. I still believe > > > > > > X.25 can be an extremely useful niche protocol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I agree you should know how to do that stuff but I think the > >written > > > and > > > > >the > > > > > > >lab should coincide. > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Darren Crawford" > > > > > > >To: > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: CCIE written is outdated. [7:5756] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Because as a CCIE you should know how to do this stuff. ;^) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> D. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> At 01:04 PM 05/24/2001 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > >> >The following have been removed from the lab. Why haven't the > > > been > > > > > > >removed > > > > > > >> >from the CCIE written? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >LAT, DECnet, Apollo, Banyan VINES, ISO CLNS, XNS, ATM LANE, > >and > > > > X.25. > > > > > > >> >Effective February 1, 2001, Appletalk will also be removed > >from > > > the > > > > >lab > > > > > > >exam > > > > > > > > >content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x$:0`0:$x,,,,x > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Darren S. Crawford > > > > > > >> Network Systems Consultant > > > > > > >> Lucent Technologies - Sacramento > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >> page via email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >> pager: 800-467-1467 > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x,,,,x$:0`0:$x$:0`0:$x,,,,x > > > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________ > > > > > > > > Priscilla Oppenheimer > > > > http://www.priscilla.com > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=6060&t=5756 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
