OK, let's see if we are on the same wave length. Usually we are! ;-) At 12:19 PM 10/4/01, Leigh Anne Chisholm wrote: >Priscilla, yes, I agree with you. I always have. What I'm saying however >is that Novell 802.3 isn't what we know IEEE 802.3 to be.
From a frame format point of view, Novell 802.3 = IEEE 802.3, and frame format is all that Novell is considering when they use the term. Novell uses the term to refer to the standard IEEE 802.3 header which includes DST SRC EtherType. (It's non-standard to use this without the IEEE 802.2 header that should follow, as Novell did, but it is still a standard header on its own.) > And Novell 802.2 >isn't what we know IEEE 802.2 to be. From a frame format point of view, Novell 802.2 = IEEE 802.2. Novell uses the term to refer to the standard IEEE 802.2 header which includes DSAP SSAP and CTRL, following a standard IEEE 802.3 header. So, Novell uses the terms to refer to standard header formats. IEEE 802.3 and 802.2 address much more than that, and I guess that is your point. IEEE 802.3 is an entire set of specs that address PHY, PMD, MAC, CSMA/CD, etc. stuff for 10, 100, and 1000-Mbps Ethernet. IEEE 802.2 describes Logical Link Control (LLC) type 1, 2 and 3. It addresses protocol behavior not just frame formats. The really amazing thing is that this is still an issue after 18 years! ;-) Priscilla > Novell just uses their own naming >scheme to describe industry standard protocols. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 10:23 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cisco@Groupstudy. Com > > Subject: RE: CCIE Written: Ethernet 802.3 Frames [7:21945] > > > > > > At 09:12 AM 10/4/01, Leigh Anne Chisholm wrote: > > >I'm not sure, but I think we're talking semantics here. I think > > what you're > > >referring to is that the Ethernet types you reference for Novell > > are based > > >on standards... but if I remember my Novell history correctly, Novell's > > >encapsulation types aren't the standards as we know them. > > > > > >For example, Novell guessed at what the standard was going to be > > for 802.3 > > >and missed. Novell's 802.3 had scalability issues and as such, had to > > >create 802.2. > > > > Novell didn't create 802.2. IEEE created it. After Novell missed by using > > 802.3 without 802.2 (novell ether, novell raw, ETHERNET_8023) they synced > > up with IEEE and offered standard encapsulation methods. Using just an > > 802.3 header didn't cause scalability issues but it did cause > > problems for > > multiprotocol applications because there's no protocol identifier if you > > just use 802.3. > > > > > Now 802.2 by itself isn't an encapsulation type in the IEEE > > >world now is it? > > > > 802.2 runs on top of 802.3, regardless of whether you're talking Novell, > > AppleTalk, etc. It is an encapsulation type and also an entire standard, > > including connectionless, connection-oriented, etc. LLC. > > > > > And that's what I mean when I say that they're > > >proprietary--they're Novell's own design > > > > They are definitely not Novell's design. > > > > > and naming structure. > > > > Naming, yes. > > > > > I don't > > >remember enough about SAP > > > > That's IEEE 802.2. > > > > >or SNAP to comment at this point... > > > > That's IEEE 802.2 with an extra header that includes a protocol type. > > > > > > >All my Novell > > >courseware manuals are at home and I'm not. > > > > Don't read the Novell course manuals. It sounds like they > > confused you. ;-) > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > > > -- Leigh Anne > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > > > Priscilla Oppenheimer > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 9:00 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: RE: CCIE Written: Ethernet 802.3 Frames [7:21945] > > > > > > > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 10/3/01, Leigh Anne Chisholm wrote: > > > > >1. See Priscilla's response first. > > > > > > > > > >2. Your query wondering about what protocols other than Novell > > > > that can use > > > > >the 802.3 frame makes me wonder if you have misunderstood > > encapsulation. > > > > >Novell's encapsulations were developed prior to the IEEE > > finalizing their > > > > >standards. They're Novell-proprietary. > > > > > > > > I understand your point, but, actually only Novell raw is > > > > proprietary. The > > > > other options for Novell encapsulation are all standard. > > > > > > > > ETHERNET_II, aka arpa, Ethernet V.2 and Ethernet II, is standard. > > > > ETHERNET_802.2, aka sap, and 802.3 with 802.2, is standard. > > > > ETHERNET_SNAP, aka snap, and 802.3 with 802.2 and SNAP, is standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > >To illustrate this point, if you set the IPX encapsulation type to be > > > > >novell-ether and you typed "show ipx interface ethernet 0", > > you'll see > > > > >"novell-ether" on the Ethernet 0 interface. However, if you > > type "show > > > > >interface ethernet 0", you'll see that the encapsulation is > > ARPA which is > > > > >different than the IPX encapsulation on that same interface. > > > > > > > > I would say that's a bug (limitation) with show int. IP uses > > > > ARPA, which is > > > > Cisco's ridiculous term for Ethernet II. Other encapsulations are > > > > used for > > > > other protocols. The show int probably just shouldn't show the > > > > encapsulation if it's not going to be more specific. > > > > > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Leigh Anne > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > > > > Lists Wizard > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:29 PM > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: CCIE Written: Ethernet 802.3 Frames [7:21945] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Group, > > > > > > > > > > I am checking on the what the Certification Zone CD is saying about > > > 802.3 > > > > > ethernet frames. Here is what they say: > > > > > > > > > > "Novell 802.3 raw frames do not use 802.2, so they do not > > > have a protocol > > > > > identifier. In > > > > > practice, encapsulated IPX frames do have an hexadecimal FF > > > in the first > > > > > byte, so the > > > > > protocol can be identified." > > > > > > > > > > my questions are: > > > > > > > > > > What protocols other than novell can use the 802.3 frame? How are >they > > > > > identified within the frame header? > > > > > > > > > > Any comments are welcomed > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Lists Wizard > > > ________________________ > > > > > > Priscilla Oppenheimer > > > http://www.priscilla.com >________________________ > >Priscilla Oppenheimer >http://www.priscilla.com ________________________ Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=22141&t=21945 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
