OK, let me try to put a closure to the thread. I think the real problem is not all lab-rats, but arrogance in general, and specifically the arrogance of certain lab-rats who just passed the lab and now think they're great and, just like that, think they deserve to be handed the director's chair. Like I've said, I have no problem with lab-rats in general. The problem is with a certain vocal subgroup of lab-rats who are suffering from delusions of grandeur.
For example, I leave you with this quote from another message board: "I passes [sic] my CCNA few months ago. It was an OK test, but I almost failed it. I was planning on taking my CCNP and CCIE, but I didnt think I could do it. So I decided to look for a training course. Anyway, people that are trying to pass CCIE or are planning on taking CCIE, I wan't to let you guys know that I found a great school for Cisco training. It is called [name deleted]...Wahoo, soon I will pass my CCIE and will be making over 100K" Lest you think I'm making this quote up, you can email me and I'll send you the link to find it. And no, it's not from a guy who's working at that school (at least, it doesn't seem like it). And this quote is not uncommon. You'll find numerous quotes like this all over the place, and you'll find lots of people who think this way. It is precisely that kind of attitude, and not lab-rats in general, that deserves to be targeted. ""cebuano"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Gang, > To put a closure to the thread, allow me to repeat the saying... > "When a man with money meets a man with experience, > the man with experience ends up with the money, and > the man with money ends up with experience." > (Gals, no flame please.) > > So please give these newbies a break. After all, didn't > ALL subscribers start from square one at some point in time? > Does it mean your employer let you handle the backbone > links from day 1? or 2? or 3?...In my case though, I got > fed to the wolves right from the get go. And with just my > CCNA, yes I had to learn everything there was i could > find on OSPF. Three weeks to research on and test BGP > and report to the boss about this protocol before we went live. > But I never claimed to be an expert. I did the best that I could. > And guess what? All those theories I gathered from the books > came back to me when time came to work out problems. > Again, I'm not saying I knew everything there was to know > about network troubleshooting. > I've been in the same situation as many, many aspiring > individuals who just want to enter into the profession that > ALL of us applied for in the past. Has experience given > people too much money that they can't remember where > they came from? > > Thanks for all respondents. > > Elmer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nrf" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:24 PM > Subject: Re: Logic and "Lab Rats" [7:44653] > > > > Amen to that. Humility is called for on both sides. > > > > Apparently I've been tagged around here as the 'King Experience' guy. > The > > very ironic thing is that on another message board, I was the person who > was > > arguing that experience was NOT as important as other posters had > indicated > > (this was an experience vs. college degree argument). Basically it boiled > > down to the fact that while experience is indeed extremely valuable, > > particularly nowadays, even experience can sometimes be taken too far. > For > > example, one guy said that experience always wins no matter what (which is > > patently false), so I gave him the example of 2 guys, whereas both guys > had > > good experience, but the first guy had stellar degrees from the most > famous > > schools, all kinds of certs, a killer personality, and everything else, > > whereas the second guy had none of that (besides the experience ), but he > > had a day's more experience. Hey, if experience really beat everything > all > > the time, then companies should always pick the second guy, because after > > all, he had more experience (one additional day). Clearly this is false. > > > > My point is simply this. Experience, education, certs, work attitude, > etc. > > etc., they all form your suite of qualifications. None of them should be > > pursued at the exclusion of all others. In fact, the best strategy seems > to > > be to work on your weaknesses. For example, if you have lots of certs and > > education, but no experience, then get experience. Conversely, if you > have > > lots of experience, but no certs and no education, then go get certs and > > education. > > > > > > ""Thomas Larus"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > I thought the "experience versus certification" debate had finally died > a > > > few days ago, but now it resurfaces over on the professional list. I > may > > as > > > well weigh in. > > > > > > The problem here is clear. Some folks with lots of experience are > scared > > > (or merely offended) that some manager or client might think some > relative > > > newbie with great-sounding certs is as good or better (or even nearly as > > > good) as the more experienced folks. Many of these experienced people > > > gained their experience in difficult or underpaid conditions. The last > > > thing they want is some ambitious upstart invaders studying hard in the > > lab, > > > then walking into their field and being treated as their peers. The > > > "experience is everything" crowd should relax right now, because in this > > > economy, they are in the driver's seat. > > > > > > One the other hand, the lab rats, myself included, are justifiably > scared. > > > We knew that if by studying hard we managed to reach a higher position > > than > > > our experience alone would justify, we might face some hostility from > > those > > > with lots of experience. Now, however, we are given to understand that > > for > > > employers right now, experience is king, since there are plenty of folks > > > with lots of experience and good certs to fill all positions that HAVE > to > > be > > > filled (as opposed to those positions that employers advertise but are > in > > no > > > hurry to fill). > > > > > > Then, there's the common complaint that, "I'm always having to fix the > > > networks screwed up by the paper-CCNAs, paper-MCSEs, Lab Rats, etc." > I > > > have enough experience to know that plenty of the screwing-up of > networks > > is > > > done by folks with lots of experience. It doesn't take long in the > field > > to > > > run across an arrogant but extremely experienced guy who thinks he is > the > > > only person in his company who knows anything, and then proceeds to > break > > > things that he then cannot fix. > > > > > > A little humility is called for in a field where almost no one can know > > > everything and where most of the greatest gurus make glaring errors. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Tom Larus > > > > > > "Howard C. Berkowitz"" wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > At 1:49 PM -0400 5/21/02, Thompson Alton wrote: > > > > >Your comments are false and you sound very ignorant. > > > > >I work with guys who have 20 years experience and to trouble shoot a > > > problem > > > > >take months. > > > > > > > > I suggest, Sir, that you examine your logic. > > > > > > > > The Internet and predecessors (including enterprise networks) are at > > > > least 20-30 years old. I first used a time-sharing computer, with > > > > remote access, about 1968. > > > > > > > > Cisco certification is under 10 years old. > > > > > > > > The Internet and its predecessors worked before Cisco certification > > > > > > > > Some people with 20 years experience, therefore, MUST be very > > > > knowledgeable on protocols. Other people with 20 years experience > > > > are not. > > > > > > > > >This is because they don't know how the protocols work. How > > > > >much money can a company afford to lose when production is > downloading > > > for a > > > > >considerable amount of time? That's why as a mangersm we send > Engineers > > > on > > > > >training to learn about new and merging technologies. And thatms > before > > > you > > > > >can put or do any upgrades to the production network you must first > try > > > it > > > > >out in the lab. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=45095&t=44653 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
