My understanding of the situation (being the guy Larry Sanger replied to in that thread) is that while we focusing on being a reliable source, we're not a primary source, and we're not even really always a secondary source. We're not presenting research (assuming WP:NOR stands), and often times the sources WP cites are themselves secondary. Even assuming we're going to get an approved article down to the best citations possible, a student still should aim for using those primary sources in any form of serious research paper. Now, that's going to vary by institute and class level. That's a must for a 300-level or 400-level class, but maybe not for a 101 class, and I'm sure it's stricter here or at another top 25 school than it is at your average college or university. For a research paper or a book, CZ isn't going to be the source you want, regardless of reliability.
So there's not a question that CZ will never be the best source for a serious academic discussion (but it may be a good starting point, and hopefully will be). It's a Citizen's Compendium, not an Acadendium (Academic's Compendium). I feel that the best purpose for CZ is to share this academics' knowledge with the rest of the world. That's why we should be writing to the level of a high-school educated (or first-year college) person. A person who wants to learn more about a subject in a way that's free and easy can do so. That's the service we provide to the world, not a great thing to cite in a paper. Zachary Pruckowski On Oct 16, 2006, at 5:32 PM, Jon Awbrey wrote: > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o > > Re: http://textop.org/smf/index.php?board=14;topic=138.3#msg1234 > > Larry & All, > > I would like to quote in full the following "rubric" that Larry > posted in the Forum: > > Larry Sanger wrote: >> >> I think we should make a prominent Note to Students: >> >> Citing any encyclopedia is a very bad idea in serious academic >> scholarship, >> not because encyclopedias are unreliable, but because they are not >> original >> sources. They are derivative. Use the Citizendium to do >> background research, >> but then go to the original sources--books and articles--that we >> cite, when you >> are looking for supporting sources for papers. >> >> The only acceptable exception, in responsible scholarship, occurs >> when you >> specifically need to have the "conventional wisdom" about a point, >> in the >> same way that occasionally one quotes a dictionary definition to >> make some >> point. In such instances, your point should be about what the >> conventional >> wisdom, or the conventional definition, is--in other words, not to >> establish >> some fact actually cited, but to establish that, conventionally, a >> point is >> understood a certain way. >> >> « Last Edit: Today at 01:43:52 PM by Larry Sanger » > > For me this statement brings up a question that has been much on my > mind: > What is the difference, if any, between a Compendium and an > Encyclopedia, > and are all encyclopedias really the same as those books that we > left at > home when we left for college? > > I already know the answer to the second half of the question, as I > have > many "encyclopedias" on my shelves that are solid works of reference, > and I know that, historically speaking, not all "encyclopedias" have > been intended for children. > > But what I have not got a clear sense of from reading > Larry's position papers on Citizendium is just how he > intends the difference, if any. > > So I think some clarification on that point is due. > > Jon Awbrry > > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o > inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/ > citizendium development forums: http://smf.citizendium.org > http://www.textop.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey > wikinfo: http://wikinfo.org/wiki.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey > wp review: http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=398 > o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o > > _______________________________________________ > Citizendium-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.purdue.edu/mailman/listinfo/citizendium-l _______________________________________________ Citizendium-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.purdue.edu/mailman/listinfo/citizendium-l
