Any such group is accessible by anyone on the Net. Our group was meant to be accessible. It is not a closed society. This is how membership could have been built. There are over 100 in the group now. Unfortunately many who did not understand the objectives came in. Some thought CAF is Bangalore centric. Some thought it is about BBMP services. A little reflection would show that CAF objectives go far beyond all these. The mails may have made many uncomfortable. If we are to be in public space, we need to be able to take some criticism. This could be strident at times. This should not make us run for cover. Our unwritten moderation policy has been, "All postings are allowed, as long as, cyber & defamation laws are not violated". We should be able to migrate to our website soon. The problems won't go away with that. Won't our website be accessible by Internet community? As I said, we need to be able to handle this flak. Can't be too sensitive in public space. Press on with reasoned arguments & action. People would perceive what is good for them. This is why I keep reminding, we are not looking for unanimity in views or approach or even majority view, which could also be wrong. Hence the liberty to take up programs that further CAF aims. This is rarely possible. Those who are willing to act could go ahead, as long as, CAF objectives are not violated. Regds, Mathew Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
-----Original Message----- From: n...@eth.net Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:36:07 To: <citizens-action-forum@googlegroups.com> Subject: CAF3161 free for all Dear friends I was surprised to see this link http://www.mail-archive.com/citizens-action-forum@googlegroups.com/ with this even those who are unconnected to CAF -any where in the world can access,which gives YTD As discussed there is a need to streamline regds Mukund > > >>>> *From:* TANIAPPA VIDYADHAR <tvidya1...@yahoo.co.in> > > >>>> *To:* citizens-action-forum@googlegroups.com; vidyadhar tan < > > >>>> tvidyad...@hotmail.com> > > >>>> *Sent:* Monday, 9 March, 2009 11:22:48 AM > > >>>> *Subject:* CAF3115 Re: Abide ..the papers themselves. > > >>>> > > >>>> Vijayan, > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks for enlightening on Abide agenda. > > >>>> > > >>>> “ Single Authority for Bangalore, Neighborhood area committee, > > >>>> strengthening Loka Ayukta, strengthening transparency, > > >>>> > > >>>> "public transport and pedestrian amenities, > > >>>> > > >>>> equip suburban areas so as to decongest core city" > > >>>> > > >>>> All the above are most dearer to all of us . Only > difference is that a > > >>>> group selected by the Govt is talking our language. Who > cares who does > > it ? > > >>>> We need results. Only thing CAF should do is to ensure > public debate > > on the > > >>>> subject that were proposed by Abide. so that the concerns > of citizens > > or > > >>>> suggestions if any can be incorporated befoire Govt > implements the > > >>>> proposals. > > >>>> > > >>>> Most talk about the elected bodies. Are we talking about > one who > > >>>> does not know what is CDP, one who says that parking may be > allowed on > > the > > >>>> road when marriege hall is built to accommodate 1000 > guests, or one > > one who > > >>>> says that 30 ft road is good enough when every house has or > will have > > 4 > > >>>> wheelers, or a Minister who says that lakes are meant for > washing> trucks and > > >>>> washing cows etc. I am not saying that all the elected > leaders are > > dumb. But > > >>>> matured voters will vote a visionary with grass root > knowledge. Todays > > >>>> voters preferences are money based,caste based, culture > based ( Read > > todays > > >>>> TOI . An Auto driver insists that Kannada girls should wear > saris when > > he > > >>>> sees half naked girls dancing in Kannada movie) . Even CM > said once > > that > > >>>> the elected folks are not " Sarvajnas" This is a matured > statement.> >>>> > > >>>> One last thing is that in due course of time we can > persuade the Govt > > to > > >>>> refine the composition of ABIDE to include experts on different > > >>>> fields/disciplines and a few grass root experts. > > >>>> > > >>>> Hope this debate will benefit the City/ State. > > >>>> > > >>>> T.Vidyadhar > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> --- On *Sun, 8/3/09, Anil kumar <anil_...@yahoo.com>* wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> From: Anil kumar <anil_...@yahoo.com> > > >>>> Subject: CAF3112 Re: Abide ..the papers themselves. > > >>>> To: citizens-action-forum@googlegroups.com > > >>>> Date: Sunday, 8 March, 2009, 6:31 PM > > >>>> > > >>>> I fully agree with Vinay's views > > >>>> > > >>>> --- On *Sun, 3/8/09, Vinay Baindur <yaniv...@gmail.com>* wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> From: Vinay Baindur <yaniv...@gmail.com> > > >>>> Subject: CAF3110 Re: Abide ..the papers themselves. > > >>>> To: "CAF2" <citizens-action-forum@googlegroups.com> > > >>>> Cc: "Vijay Menon" <menon...@gmail.com> > > >>>> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 1:58 AM > > >>>> > > >>>> It is quite simple the fundas.... > > >>>> > > >>>> No planner worth his salt in the 21st century will ever > > *organise*input seeking consultations > > >>>> *after preparing a plan*, since this is an insult to the > public whose > > >>>> views for the future of the city matter the most. > > >>>> > > >>>> Are the abide scared of going to the public?... Or do they > think the > > >>>> public only stays in Kmangala , Indiranagar ? This is > something we > > need to > > >>>> watch closely.... > > >>>> > > >>>> Can we overlook some of the points this gap in the basic > process...> why > > >>>> should we? And that is why such a top down plan is > > >>>> invalid...straightforward > > >>>> > > >>>> Since the public were not and are not likely to be > consulted about the > > >>>> future growth of Bengaluru, may we ask who were? > > >>>> The vision docs are really a *distraction*.... > > >>>> > > >>>> *The Plan Bengaluru 2020 will illustrate that * > > >>>> http://abidebengaluru.in/report/show/2 > > >>>> > > >>>> The very same bureaucrats and government servants from BDA, > BESCOM,> >>>> BWSSB, BMTC who are continuously criticised by the > private sector, > > world > > >>>> bank etc and are target of public sector reform wash..... > > >>>> > > >>>> we all know these bureaucrats have never consulted the > public even > > >>>> during the BATF stakeholder summits.... so does Abide have > something> to > > >>>> learn from them ? well I dont know what that is.... > > >>>> > > >>>> If Human development and quality of life and comfortable > living for > > the > > >>>> public of the city are important, then infrastructure > investment at > > all > > >>>> costs should be questioned by all. > > >>>> > > >>>> Unfortunately there is no realisation that the majority are > also those > > >>>> for whom another world is possible and where freedom of > thought can be > > >>>> possible? > > >>>> > > >>>> Vinay > > >>>> > > >>>> ======================================== > > >>>> > > >>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Vijay Menon > <menon...@gmail.com<> > http://in.mc79.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=menon...@gmail.com>> > >>>> > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Sorry all...a very long note. Maybe some of u will have the > > patience!! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Elsewhere in this group, the whole democratic/constitutional/ > > >>>>> transparent aspects of Abide/Jangaraha etc are being > discussed. I > > have > > >>>>> my personal views on this. Essentially that, say Abide is, > as at > > least > > >>>>> as constitutional/ democratic/ transparent as anything > else we have. > > >>>>> Also for me after years of working in an imperfect but highly > > >>>>> demanding world , I have preferred to look at results > rather than > > >>>>> minute hair splitting on the method, within some set of > basic norms. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> However I do not want to get too much into that, but into > another> >>>>> aspect....the actual papers/recommendations that > abide have brought > > >>>>> out and which are in public domain. Interestingly there is > no comment > > / > > >>>>> study or a critique of this in our group. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> (NOTE:I have uploaded some files on the files section. but > could not > > >>>>> load the larger files .Do go to www.abidebengaluru.in > to see the > > >>>>> whole files/papers etc. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> My "umble" feeling is that if all of us at CAF had spent > the same > > >>>>> energy and time in looking and commenting on the final > papers rather > > >>>>> than a debate on the genesis of Abide, we could serve both > ours and > > >>>>> the public at large interests better ..In that I would > want to ask > > CAF > > >>>>> to consider if we are in the danger of being cribbers > rather than a > > >>>>> group that engages constructively. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So here goes..Only to get this going... (If there is such > an interest > > >>>>> in the group).And below are my initial opinions > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> A) Govern Blre paper: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Perhaps the best one I have seen so far on the > topic.Borrrows heavily > > >>>>> from kasturirangan recommendations, but differ at crucial > areas> >>>>> especially in > > >>>>> --"single authority "concepts. > > >>>>> --responsibilities and accountabilities of the system > (elected mayor > > >>>>> etc) > > >>>>> --Strengthening of ward concepts. > > >>>>> --introduction of “neighborhood area committee" under ward > to decide > > >>>>> at a very local level what they want (even up to land use > > conversions/ > > >>>>> commercial usage of space) > > >>>>> --Broad guidelines for contracting. > > >>>>> --Strengthening of transparency and discloure..Including > > Strengthening > > >>>>> of lok ayuktha act. > > >>>>> --Focus on environment, heritage and beauty...restarting of > > "Bangalore > > >>>>> Urban arts commission" > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Note: I suspect that the financing portion will come under > some> >>>>> criticism from the proverbial "status quoist" ,"Pseudo > --socialist” > > >>>>> because there is more than a small mention of User fees.!!! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> B) Road and traffic management. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Some of the main guiding directive principles are > > >>>>> > > >>>>> --"public transport and pedestrian amenities are of prime > importance"> >>>>> --"Equip suburban areas so as to decongest core > city"> >>>>> ---'Elimination of silos in public administration of > traffic and > > >>>>> transport" > > >>>>> --"Improve utilization of existing capacities" > > >>>>> > > >>>>> A good paper with a fair amount of specific worked out > > >>>>> proposals ..rther than just directions.and these will tend > to happen > > , > > >>>>> in my opinion. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> And quite a bit more> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Note: I suspect however the naysayers will pick on one > issue; Say the > > >>>>> BIG 10 arterial roads, to focus efforts of their general > abhorrence> >>>>> with Abide! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> And there are 2 other papers: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -Secure Bangalore: (law enforcement paper)I think this is > the weakest > > >>>>> document. > > >>>>> -Urban poor: A tome..I guess Anita Reddy had a hand in > this. and I > > >>>>> would baulk at even considering commenting on her work. > and any way I > > >>>>> do not know much in this area. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So the important issues: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> a) Are abides plans /reccos really elitist or is it just > that we > > >>>>> cannot stomach page 3 personlaities.Perhaps we need to > separate> >>>>> persons from the plan. > > >>>>> b) Do we focus one some of the not so great aspects of the > plans to > > >>>>> bring down the entire Abide initiative? > > >>>>> c) Do we recognize that Abide also needs support to get > some of the > > >>>>> more radical, new methods proposals (which by the way are not > > >>>>> elitist)...And do we try to give that support. > > >>>>> d) And does CAF participate actively in this planning and > > >>>>> administration process or sit by the wayside cribbing. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Decide… the Abide process is very much on in Bangalore, > one way or > > >>>>> another. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Vijayan > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ------------------------------ > > >>>> Get your own website and domain for just Rs.1,999/year.* > Click here! > > >>>> ------------------------------ > > >>>> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! > > >>>> > <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_ysb_4/*http://in.business.yahoo.com/>Invite> > them now.< > > > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/<http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo..com/invite/>> > > > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Connect with friends all over the world. 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