Some judges do enforce the rules...and those that do, don't discriminate between
handlers and owner handlers. I have seen handlers tossed out for having colored
their dogs with daffy...when they had not done so. I have seen judges place dogs
who, when they shook, clouds of white flew out from around them (and I've seen
this in other countries besides the USA, too).
What is it that you think I would not be willing to share? If you are sure
that someone is using a foreign substance on a dog, you are allowed to make a
protest...if you are in the ring, it is free. If you are outside the ring, it
costs you what, $25? And these things can and do get done...people call for
measurements and things like that all the time...if they are disqualifications.
The Cavalier standard does not disqualify...so what would your protest serve?
There are judges who have announced to exhibitors that they were not going to
place the Cavalier in question because the feathers on the feet were, in that
judges opinion, trimmed. There are judges who would never notice or if they did,
would ignore it.
It isn't a dq...they can't throw the dogs out for trimming.
Foreign substances are not allowed...the opinion is left up to the judge, but
you are free to protest a dog that you think is dyed or "enhanced." It doesn't
matter who's holding the lead, anyone can protest these things.
I don't know how you'd prove the dog is dyed, altho it is easy to prove the
presence of chalk and sometimes, even daffy. Here in the States, with people not
at all inhibited about suing, a judge might be sued if he or she dismissed a dog
for being dyed, and the exhibitor could prove the dog wasn't...that might be why
more don't do it...altho the rule does say "in the judge's opinion."
Dogs in the UK HAVE been disqualified for being dyed...and it was proven
scientifically that the dogs in question had been dyed.
I think that by now, after 7 years (I think that's what you said) you'd have
gotten over your prejudice against handlers. They are a part of the dog world
here, and that's a fact. In some breeds in the UK, they are a fact of life too.
Some people use handlers because they don't have anyone at home to leave the rest
of their dogs with, others because they are stinko at handling. Yes, there are
some who use handlers because handlers win more than owners...handlers work
harder than most owners.
I hate to say this, because I don't want to get into a name calling contest
or anything...but the fault is with the judges, not the handlers. Most
professional handlers work their butts off to do the best job they can with what
they have. Most owners do not, or if they do, they are only doing it for one or
two dogs.
I think you need to expand your horizons. Watch handlers at work...they are
the first line of help when someone has a problem at a show...ALWAYS. They are
the first place to go when your dog suddenly gets the pukes or the runs...the
handlers have meds that can help. They are up before dawn getting their dogs
ready, and most (not all) of them have spent their lives learning how to show
dogs and how to show them well. There was a time when the top handlers wouldn't
take a less than top quality dog...economics prevent this these days.
I don't think you give the handlers a fair shake, Dave...and I do think you
need to expand your horizons insofar as they are concerned.
Back to my opinion in answer to your question...you can't make judges enforce
the rules. If you think a judge is prejudiced towards the professionals, don't
enter under that judge. Join an all-breed club and don't let the club hire that
judge (or at least try). If you think there are judges who consistently ignore
dogs who are shown in violation of the rules, you have the right to protest, and
you also have the right to write letters to the AKC and complain.
BTW - it is not at all political suicide for a judge to judge dogs on the
day, to excuse dogs for the presence of a foreign substance, or anything else.
It is much more likely that a judge commits political suicide if they always make
the wrong choices--keep in mind that if you play bingo every day, you win
sometimes.
Handlers do anywhere from 40 to 150 shows a year. They work hard and not all
of them cheat. How many shows do you do...and how many dogs do you show at those
shows?
It is miserable to lose because the judge never looked at the south end of
the lead...been there, done that (as an exhibitor). It is a hallmark of a novice
to blame that on the handler instead of on the judge.
Peggy
Dave Wagner wrote:
> In a message dated 10/6/2002 9:14:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> <<Firstly, I don't think the original post spoke to any fear of professional
> handlers catching on in England...just whether some of ours might go there to
> show dogs. >>
>
> Actually I think they were referencing an article that referred to culture
> clash and I consider the way I saw Cavaliers shown over there vs what I see
> in the pro ranks here just that .... MAJOR culture clash.
>
> > <<Also, you can have NOTHING on the coat except water here, either, if you
> > are
> > talking about the rules. Ever heard the term "foreign substance?" And
> > the next
> > time you go to the UK, Dave, take a walk around the vendors...they sell
> > chalk,
> > and finishing sprays, and oils, and conditioners...surely they aren't just
> > there
> > for the visiting Americans.
> > Peggy>>
> >
>
> Well that shows my ignorance. While I knew the chalk and magic markers some
> breeds use happily coloring their dogs in the open and powders all over the
> tables and floors, etc were probably illegal at least in some breeds, I
> thought here as long as the substance didn't alter the appearance of the dog
> such as chalk, it was allowed such as a finishing spray that just makes it
> shinier or removes static cling. In fact there is so much powder flying
> around the grooming areas and piles left on the tables and floor and magic
> markers like an art class to the extreme I thought in some breeds here it
> surely must be legal to be so blatantly applied with no fear of repurcussion.
> Learn something new every day.
>
> I have no doubt if you say the booths in the UK are selling these things that
> they are Peggy you have probably been there many more times then me and I
> didnt walk the booths. My statements were based on the fact that I didn't
> see the blow dryers and powder clouds coming out of grooming tents and big
> tufts of hair blowing around etc when I was in the UK. I did not feel the
> Cavaliers I saw displayed there where nearly as primped and fluffed as what I
> have seen here. It could just be my untrained eye.
>
> I do have one question for you ... being a long time judge and all. Do
> judges here not enforce these rules or are they just not good enough to tell
> if something outside the rules has been done? If the judges are not going to
> enforce the rules why don't we just change them to allow those following the
> rules to compete on even keel with good conscience? Do you have any opinion
> on any way to get judges to actually enforce the rules or do you feel it is a
> lost cause. I'm looking for an experienced opinion which I know you have but
> not so sure you are willing to share. My opinion is it would be political
> suicide for a judge thats why they don't enforce these things especially
> against big name well connected handlers.
>
> Dave
> CastleMyst Cavaliers
> http://members.aol.com/CMystCavs
>
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