thanks...well said. On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Straw, Steve <[email protected]> wrote:
> Folks, > > This discussion thread is endlessly debatable. > > Every institution must decide its' own fair/acceptable use policy - most > with the advice of their own legal departments. If yours does not then I > would recommend that your first order of business should be to consult your > institutions lawyers then formulate your institutional policy based on that > advice and your administrations viewpoint on how your students/users should > or shouldn't access your network. > > Let us leave the philosophy and esoteric discussions to our own > institutions doctors and administrators. > > And let us refocus our discussion here on those product issues and problems > that we can actually assist and support each other in solving. > > Warmest Regards, > > Steve Straw > Network Services Manager > Lynchburg College > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cisco Clean Access Users and Administrators [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven Fischer > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Freedom and the community. > > No is asking students to leave, merely suggesting that if the policies > governing network use are unacceptable to you, perhaps another > university will have network use policies more to your liking. > > I don't like the fact that I'm not allowed to drive my car at 90 mph > through residential area. That doesn't make the law governing use of > an automobile of no effect with regards to me, or make me immune from > the consequences the follow violation of the law. > > The school has within their rights adopted a policy you don't like. > We got it...if it's that big of an afront to you, enroll somewhere > else. That is your right. I'm simply trying to make you realized that > you are empowered to take action, and the action you're empowered to > take. > > On 5/14/09, Joey Mavity <[email protected]> wrote: > > How well is that policy of asking students to leave your college working > > in the eyes of your administration? > > > > > > > > From: Cisco Clean Access Users and Administrators > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven Fischer > > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:37 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [CLEANACCESS] Freedom and the community. > > > > > > > > This is a poor analogy on a lot of levels... > > > > > > > > The problem with P2P software on the college campus > > > > > > > > 1. legal concern - the transfer of copyrighted works across the > > college's infrastructure without the college being able to track/police > > it. P2P has legitimate purposes, but the risk of illegitimate use > > appear to outweigh the benefits of legitimate use in the eyes of the > > administrators and regents. > > > > > > > > 2. "fair" use concern - ensuring the resource is available to all > > students for the purpose intended. I think we can all agree that the > > intended purpose is NOT to provide lower-layer transport for P2P > > software/protocols. Some of these applications can act as denial of > > service agents, as the bandwidth they consume is not trivial, and can > > deny use of the resource for the purpose for which it was intended. > > > > > > > > The resource belongs to the college, not to the students. As such, it > > is up to the perogative of the college (administrators, regents, etc) to > > determine the conditions under which students can use that resource. It > > appears that a student is taking issue with a specific set of rules and > > regulations governing the use of the college's network resource. I > > appreciate that indivuals concern, and would invite him, after the > > current semister, to find a college where the rules and regulations > > governing the use of the network resource provided by the college are > > more to his liking. > > > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Koffler, George A. <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > Can students on your campus have guns in their backpacks, or even their > > rooms? Why not? ;) > > > > Sincerely, > > The Devil's Advocate > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cisco Clean Access Users and Administrators > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe Feise > > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:49 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Freedom and the community. > > > > Daniel Sichel wrote on 05/12/09 08:17: > > > >> > >> The software is "merely installed" is not a complete statement of the > >> facts. > > > > > > Yes, it was. This whole issue was about detecting installed p2p software > > that is > > not in use. > > Usage is a whole different thing. > > Please do not muddle the issue. > > > >> There is a high probability that this leads foreseeably (sp?) to > >> use of the "merely installed" software. > > > > > > Again, usage is a whole different thing. > > And, as one of the posters said, network admins are sure within their > > rights to > > block p2p traffic. That's traffic, as in usage. > > > >> Certainly a case can be made > >> that it is the responsibility of the student to make sure it's not in > >> use. > > > > > > Yes. > > > >> How about this as a compromise? Leave the software, run Nessus on > >> the LAN. When (and I mean when, not if) the student's computer begins > >> generating traffic that indicates he or she is abusing the facility > > with > >> P2P software, their connection is terminated until they pay a fine > > equal > >> to the value of excess bandwidth used and maybe reasonable > > compensation > >> to the other responsible users for the degraded facility. No excuses. > > > > > > If the student violates the rules of using the network, there are > > presumably > > appropriate remedies for that. > > But again, I have not argued about usage. I only argued about having the > > software installed. Having certain software installed on the student's > > personal > > property does not violate any network usage rules. > > > >> As for banning books, try citing the Bible in your psych class as a > >> guide to human behavior and you will swiftly discover, academia > > already > >> bans books. > > > > > > Here you again confuse possession with usage. > > A professor is not going to look in my backpack to see if I carry the > > Bible with > > me... > > Having software installed is akin to possessing particular books, even > > carrying > > them with me if I wish to. > > > > -Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before > > his glorious presence without fault and with great joy > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before > his glorious presence without fault and with great joy > -- To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy
