Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that you were arguing that everything should be more like Java? Now you're arguing that Google Closure is bad because it has some similarities to Java development (mainly verbosity and documentation). I'm honestly not sure if you are just trying to be controversial, or to appear smart, but I'll bite (time for a break anyways).
Closure is not idomatic javascript: --- Do you have an actual argument from experience here, or are you regurgitating what you've read in articles like [1]. Is CoffeeScript idiomatic javascript? How about Dojo? SproutCore? jQuery? What exactly is idiomatic javascript? vs. jQuery: --- jQuery is awesome for adding dynamicity and ajaxy stuff to page based web apps, I don't think anyone argues that. And it is extrememly simple, not even requiring the user to know any javascript to use it. This is why it is so (deservedly) popular. Large scale, single page applications are a different thing than page based sites, however. Writing these types of apps with only jQuery quickly turns to spaghetti. There are some nice libraries/frameworks out there, like Backbone and Underscore, that do a very nice job of making it cleaner and scalable. These are all still fairly young though, to be fair. In the realm of proven environments for large scale, client side javascript development, you have Dojo and Google Closure, and to some degree SproutCore and Cappuccino. If you can point me to larger scale apps than GMail, Google Docs, etc., written using jQuery, I will gladly have a look. Once you get to that scale, you really needing a way to organize code, to package and load modules, etc. Dojo and Closure offer a pretty nice, and proven, system for this. So, yes, I would have preferred Dojo, because I am more familiar. But to be fair, Closure is very similar, is a very complete library, and has very good documentation and examples for the most part. [1] http://www.sitepoint.com/google-closure-how-not-to-write-javascript/ - Mark On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:19 AM, James Keats <james.w.ke...@gmail.com>wrote: > > Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed. > > First of all, congrats and good job to all involved in putting it out. > On the plus side, it's a good way to use the Google Closure javascript > platform. > > On the minus, imho, that's what's wrong with it. > > Google Closure is too Java. It's not idiomatic JavaScript. I find it > disappointing that rather than porting from a functional language like > Clojure straight to another functional language like Javascript, the > google closure with its ugly Java-isms is right there obnoxiously in > the middle. > > Then, there's the elephant in the room, and that elephant is Jquery. I > believe any targetting-javascript tool that misses out on jquery-first- > and-foremost is missing out on the realities of javascript in 2011. > Jquery is huge in its community and plugins, and it has tons of books > and tutorials. In much the same way that you can have lots of libs on > the JVM, there are lots of plugins for jquery. So much so that the > latest edition of Javascript: the Definitive Guide includes a chapter > on it; quoted: > > "Because the jQuery library has become so widely used, web developers > should be fa- > miliar with it: even if you don’t use it in your own code, you are > likely to encounter it > in code written by others." > > Then, the Google Closure compiler is a moot point. Everyone by now > already has a copy of jquery from the Google CDN and linking to it in > your code will not download it any further after your first visit to a > website that does so. In any case, it's already small and fast. > > Then there's rhino/jvm. I would much rather an in-browser focus. > > I'm tempted to "fork" clojurescript and redo it in javascript perhaps > so that seamless interop with jquery would be the main priority. > > Discuss? > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
