It was (thoughtfully and politely) pointed out that I came across as smug here.
I'm very sorry about that. I plead exhaustion. I use python for most of my day job. I was trying to convey how much more painful its workflow is for me, now that I've embraced "the lisp way" for my personal projects (I have a toddler...I don't have time to spend on all the things that most of the computer industry never even questions). I meant to go back and edit this to replace "you" with examples of how *I* do these things wrong. I hit Send instead of saving to a draft until this morning. There is a learning curve, and it's a serious change in your point of view. But it really is totally worth it. Respectfully and apologetically, James On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 1:02:55 AM UTC-5, James Gatannah wrote: > > I *totally* understand your (and pretty much every other responder's) > frustration. > > You're approaching it wrong. > > Most python/ruby programmers get this wrong, also. It's OK. I did this > wrong for > *years* in lots of different languages. (I blame my C++ background for how > long > it's taking this to sink in for me). > > One of the keys to "getting" lisp is to embrace the REPL. Start your > environment > up. And let it run. It isn't a living, breathing entity, but it's easy to > forget that after > a short while. > > Python's interactive shell covers the same idea. I think ruby has IRB to > do the > same sort of thing. But those are just kind-a sort-a "See? We can do the > same > thing lisp does" wannabes. > > I don't want to trash talk ruby or python. They're both great languages > for what > they do. > > But they're designed for solving different, easier problems. And they're > built for > coping with those problems in ways that are horribly more complicated. > > I came to clojure from a python/common lisp background (and I came to them > from a C++ background). I spent years hating everything different about > it, > and I was totally wrong. > > Long startup time? Totally worth it. I go through it a few times when I > get my > basic system defined. (People have already recommended Stuart Sierra's > Component architecture in this thread, haven't they?) > > And then my entire system is defined and works. I don't ever need to > restart > until I bring in a new dependency. > > When I work in python, I have to restart everything under the sun every > time > I screw up the arguments to a printf. > > Immutable data structures? This is the paydirt, darling. I thought that > this was > the most horrible part of clojure, and I wasted reams of imagination > trying to > figure out ways around it. > > And I was wrong. > > Unless you're writing an OS kernel, you should probably be using immutable > data structures. Even if you're genius enough to track all the ways that > your > mutable data structure could possibly be mangled, the next person to come > along and deal with it won't be as smart as you. > > That "next person" is usually you 6 months in the future. Don't screw > yourself > over. > > And then there's the JVM. > > I used to think I was safer from hackers because the JVM gets hacked > 20,000 times a day and "my" platform *never* got hacked. > > Then someone pointed out that the JVM gets attacked 20 bazillion times a > second, whereas "my" platform would never get attacked until/unless I > actually created something successful on it. > > Just learn how to use lein and/or boot. It *is* annoying, but a good > investment. > > > On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 11:08:39 AM UTC-5, Jiacai Liu wrote: >> >> I started learning clojure recently, and I am annoyed at the way to run >> it (aka. lein run). why clojure script can't be run like python,ruby or >> scala, like python <file>.py >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
