Hi Dusty,
Yes, I understand your point. Cloud images are usually spun up and provisioned
automatically by cloud service providers, but they are often used as regular
remote machines by end users.
E.g. Scaleway offers a selection of "curated" cloud images for their servers
(for Fedora: https://github.com/scaleway/image-fedora) that the user can choose
from, which have been tested and customized with their provisioning scripts.
Which is not without issues but they sort them out at GitHub.
From an end-user perspective though, even if I was provisioning the server
through some automatic tool like Terraform (https://www.terraform.io/), I
expect the operating system to be working just as a regular Fedora system
would. Even if it's a stripped-down minimal version, I could install anything
necessary for my tasks.
That's why I'm using Fedora in the first place, because it's familiar and
contains the latest necessary software.
The problem with the missing man pages from an end-user perspective:
This seems to be a bug at first glance (at first I thought it's a Scaleway
deployment issue)
It's not documented inside the image
It's not documented outside of the image in some official documentation
For an experienced user, a warning message would sufficient to know where to
look at least - to know why this is happening and how to solve the situation if
necessary.
This wouldn't be the responsibility of the man software (in package man-db)
because this is package manager stuff.
So my solution proposal:
I'm going to create PRs to add this piece of info to the Scaleway Fedora
(https://github.com/scaleway/image-fedora), Docker Brew
(https://github.com/fedora-cloud/docker-brew-fedora), and possibly Docker
library (https://hub.docker.com/_/fedora/) readmes. Just a warning that
documentation has been permanently turned off, referencing to this discussion:
https://github.com/fedora-cloud/docker-brew-fedora/issues/9
I'll create an RFE for DNF (instead of man) - to show a warning when tsflags
have been set. Even something like: "Current transaction flags: [...]" would be
sufficient. This at least informs the user about the configuration.
What do you think?
Best regards,
Greg
On jún 28 2018, at 3:03 du, Dusty Mabe <du...@dustymabe.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 06/28/2018 05:38 AM, Gergely Gombos wrote:
> > Hello,
>
>
> Hi Greg,
> >
> > I just installed a F28 image on a Scaleway cloud server. Runs fine, except
> > there were no man pages, even after installing man-pages package.
> > It turned out after a lot of searching that this is not a bug but a feature.
> > Issue on GitHub:
> > https://github.com/fedora-cloud/docker-brew-fedora/issues/9#issuecomment-365176011
> > So the culprit is the Kickstarts file, here:
> > https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/blob/master/f/fedora-docker-common.ks#_32
> > (and other nearby .ks files)
> > It says "%packages --excludedocs --instLangs=en --nocore [...]"
> >
> > According to the Kickstart docs
> > (http://pykickstart.readthedocs.io/en/latest/kickstart-docs.html#chapter-4-package-selection)
> > this won't install man pages, presumably to save space, but the end user
> > won't know this, because man will simply not find any man pages and that's
> > it.
> > A solution was to edit /etc/dnf/dnf.conf, comment "tsflags=nodocs" and then
> > reinstall everything with dnf reinstall.
> > My question: I understand that it's important to save space with
> > containers, but often cloud users wish to use man pages, as they are using
> > the cloud server just as any remote computer. Is there a way to document
> > the above situation e.g. when the user tries to view a man page gets a
> > notification about why they are not installed (and how to install them)?
> This is subjective to who you are, but here is my opinion. A "Cloud" server is
> usually one that is spun up and provisioned automatically (i.e. a person does
> not SSH into the machine to configure it). The cloud instance has a specific
> purpose and can be thrown away easily and re-provisioned. In this scenario
> docs
> are wasted space and people generally value smaller image size over having the
> documentation.
>
> Now there are certainly cases where you just spin up a cloud instance and want
> to configure it yourself, but that's not what we're optimizing for. It would
> be
> nice if 'man' were able to detect this situation and offer an alternative.
> Maybe
> open an RFE BZ against man for this??
>
> - Dusty
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