I might have an A&H hatch to sell. I need to check the dimensions, but it was new surplus black anodized, would have served as the main hatch aft of the mast on the 35-2 but decided to refurbish the old one. Hole pattern is a bit different from the original as well
ALEX GIANNELIA Phone (416) 203-9858 Fax (416) 203-9843 Cell (416) 529-0070 email: a...@airsensing.com WEB: www.airsensing.com -----Original Message----- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com Sent: November 10, 2012 2:59 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 82, Issue 21 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: deck hatch leak (Mark G) 2. Heaving-to (Mark G) 3. Re: water tanks. (Colin Kilgour) 4. Re: Heaving-to (Ken Heaton) 5. Pelicans (Joe Della Barba) 6. Re: Pelicans (Rich Knowles) 7. Re: deck hatch leak (Rick Brass) 8. Re: deck hatch leak (LKL Architects) 9. Re: Heaving-to (Rick Brass) 10. Re: Heaving-to (Rick Brass) 11. Re: Heaving-to (Andrew Burton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:10:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark G <mjg...@comcast.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List deck hatch leak Message-ID: <1873262350.11786.1352571038640.javamail.r...@sz0109a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Rick, I may take on the same project on my '73 25 Mk1 next spring. According to A&H what I have is the "old style" XR200, which is a 20" square hatch. My existing hatch doesn't leak, not under the frame, not under the acrylic But the acrylic is badly crazed and the latches (threaded knobs) are missing. Replacement hardware is no longer available for this hatch, and I've had no luck at marine consignment shops after 5 years of looking. I've jury-rigged some latches. So I guess you could say this project is primarily to improve the appearance of the hatch. I recently salvaged '74 25 Mk1 hull #301 and took the hatch among other things. My experience was the same: screws came out easily, frame required some prying with a putty knife, sealant appeared to be butyl. According to A&H this is the newer style XR200. As you said below the different generations of A&H hatches don't use the same hardware, hinges or frame. A&H even said there is a 1/8" or 1/4" difference in the overall size. The hatch from the salvage boat is complete with all the hardware, but the acrylic is badly crazed. On this hatch, the acrylic is screwed to the frame in 8 places. I assume this is a previous acrylic replacement. There is also evidence it leaked under the acrylic as a previous owner applied lots of additional sealant. I've got quotes from Select Plastics and Hammerhead Nautical to refurb the salvage hatch, or should I say, to replace the acrylic. Has anyone attempted to reanodize or paint the frame? What was your experience reinstalling the frame? On the salvage boat the frame screws came out easily. I suspect they were screwed directly into a soggy balsa core. If it's the same on my boat, I'm thinking I may have to do a core repair before I can reinstall the hatch. (I replaced the chainplates last year and that turned into a significant core repair.) Did you have to do a core repair? Did you fill the existing holes and drill new ones? Is thru-bolting an option? I'm concerned I may not get enough compression on the seal without thru-bolts. If it wasn't for the missing hardware, I'd keep the existing hatch and replace the acrylic - either on the boat or by just removing the top of the hatch at the hinge Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:11:26 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Stus-List deck hatch leak Imzadi had the original 27? square A&H hatch on the foredeck. I Had bought a used hatch some time ago, and planned to refurb that hatch and install it on the existing frame (which did not leak). So my first question is why pull the frame if it isn?t leaking and you are planning to refurbish/reseal the lens in the hatch? For me, it turned out that there are older and newer style A&H hatches and that the hinge arrangement is different enough that my refurbished hatch would not fit the existing frame. I took out all of the screws holding the hatch down and tried to lift the frame ? no joy. The hatch frame was bedded with gray butyl (I scraped a small sample from under the edge to determine what the sealant was), but boy was it tenacious. Finally forced a putty knife between the frame and deck in several places to break the seal, and used a wide pry bar as a lever the frame off the deck. My point is that the sealant could be butyl. And, of course, the second point is that when ! you reinstall the frame DO NOT use 5200. Rick BrassWashington, NC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/0d2341d2/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:32:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark G <mjg...@comcast.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Heaving-to Message-ID: <1438155064.12320.1352572377739.javamail.r...@sz0109a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally able to easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year. I sail with a 135-140% Genoa on a furler. On the day everything clicked it was furled to about 100-110%. Since then, I have made furling the Genoa to 100-110% the first step of heaving-to. It makes sense to me that, since heaving-to is all about balancing the sails, sail area forward would be a significant factor. But on a boat without a furler this can't be accomplished without a sail change, etc. So I'm thinking the same thing might be accomplished by positioning the main sail with the sheet or the traveler. Can anybody weigh in on their experience, particularly with the 25 Mk1? Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/7cf400dd/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:46:45 -0500 From: Colin Kilgour <charliekilo...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List water tanks. Message-ID: <cakr-nkk+94omglpzfux5qr4kuyatr++gew+uwaraivnzkwn...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dwight, The high number I quote pertains only to cruisers who make passages or who stay aboard for a long period of time. With regard to folks who do weekends aboard or a 2 week coastwise cruise - I'm sure many of them still do the bottled thing - but as you point out - it's easy to do that when you don't have to worry about storage, cost, or waste disposal. Once those things become relevant though, using the tanks that C&C gave you is the most practical solution. Cheers, Colin (Disclosure: my wife used to swear by bottled water on board. She has since seen the light, but not without some marital angst! - and a PurestOne filter) On 11/10/12, dwight veinot <dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote: > Thanks for you response, Colin > > Based on what I have learned about some of your cruising experiences from > this list I accept that you are much more qualified than I am to put a > number on it. > > I am, however, surprised with such a high number. Nonetheless, I think > that > I will remain a member of the minority on this practice. I must add, > however, that when I refer to "cruising" my experience has been coastal > cruising, basically along the south shore of NS where many of our friends > and relatives live so we are able to go ashore for visits and have the > means > to return to our own home and resupply with fresh water from our well and > fresh vegetables and berries from our gardens every week or so. Most of > our > cruising and live aboard time is in August and the majority of that time is > spent in and around Chester, Mahone Bay, Lunenburg and Liverpool so it is > not difficult and quite practical for us to do it the way we do. > > Using taste altering additives like Kool Aid, for example, doesn't change a > thing for me so let it be known that whoever takes a drink on my boat they > can be assured it will not include water from the boats built in storage > tanks and now equipped with the advice I received recently I will be much > more careful about what I drink when on board other boats. Usually that > comes from sealed cans or bottles so it has not really been a big concern > so > far. > > And Cheers to you too > Dwight > > -----Original Message----- > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Colin > Kilgour > Sent: November 9, 2012 7:11 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List water tanks. > > Dwight, > > You wondered how many folks use their on board tanks for potable water. > I say almost 100% of all cruisers. Anything else is just impractical. > > And like Rich says, there are lots of ways to make the water taste better. > > Cheers > Colin > > On 11/9/12, Knowles Richard <r...@sailpower.ca> wrote: >> Oh. I forgot: I have a full house size activated charcoal filter between > the >> tanks and the pump. The rum kills the rest of the taste. >> >> Rich Knowles >> INDIGO LF38 >> Halifax, NS. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2012-11-09, at 5:23 PM, dwight veinot <dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca> >> wrote: >> >> No one has died.death or illness is not the main point for me.the javex >> would probably take care of that but.taste counts too! >> >> Dwight Veinot >> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna >> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS >> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich >> Knowles >> Sent: November 9, 2012 5:13 PM >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Subject: Re: Stus-List water tanks. >> >> I've been running water, javex, soap solution through every fall, >> followed >> by a good rinse and then plumbing alcohol. Rinse through thoroughly in >> the >> spring and add a half cup of javex to each tank. 3 x 30 gals. Had the >> boat >> 15 years, drunk the water, used it for cooking and mixing drinks. No one > has >> died and the doctor tells me that the swelling will go down eventually. >> >> Rich Knowles >> Indigo. LF38 >> Halifax >> >> On 2012-11-09, at 16:30, dwight veinot <dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca> >> wrote: >> >> How do you clean the lines leading from the tank(s) to the >> faucets.doesn't >> the same crud that accumulates on the tank walls also accumulate on the >> inside walls of the plumbing hoses. >> >> I have not cleaned my tanks but I regularly add Javex to the water in >> them >> (note that we do not drink water from those tanks and would only do so in > an >> absolute emergency, like lost at sea or something, it is used for washing >> dishes and showering but not for cooking or brushing teeth. Even if I >> had >> washed the tanks I would still not be comfortable with consuming the >> water >> in them, too many uncertain sources used to refill. I wonder why you > remove >> the wash solution from the tanks with a Shop Vac, instead of pumping the >> wash solution through the plumbing lines and out through the faucets, >> followed by a thorough rinse of the tank and the lines to the faucets >> with >> fresh water. >> >> I wonder how many people use water from the boats storage tanks as >> potable >> water versus carrying bottle water for drinking, cooking and brushing >> teeth. >> >> Dwight Veinot >> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna >> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS >> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & >> Melody >> Sent: November 9, 2012 3:53 PM >> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> Subject: Re: Stus-List water tanks. >> >> >> For water tank cleaning I like a strong bleach solution, say 1/2 cup to >> gallon of warm water (125mL -> 4 Litres). >> pour solution into tank and swish/rub all surfaces with cloth or brush >> let soak 5 - 10 minutes and repeat a number of times (while doing other >> things) >> remove bleach solution with shop vac >> rinse with hose and remove water with shop vac >> if over-wintering, I suggest leaving the tank ports open and cover >> opening >> with a cotton towel >> Cheers, Russ >> Sweet 35 mk-1 >> >> At 10:53 AM 09/11/2012, you wrote: >> >> >> What is the best way to clean them. I have access through hatches. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5384 - Release Date: 11/09/12 >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5384 - Release Date: 11/09/12 >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5384 - Release Date: 11/09/12 > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > -- Sent from my mobile device ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:56:25 -0400 From: Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to Message-ID: <CAAbfP6S=3p9s_-ha0y7mahgu72w6nph3gmq5yedkvh8ysjr...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Mark, I'm no expert but it would seem to me you need a fairly small head-sail to get most any boat to heave to properly as the head-sail is normally backwinded as part of heaving to. Back-winding a sail much bigger than a 100% would put it hard on the spreaders which isn't going to be good for the sail or for airflow around the sail. Ciao. Ken Heaton (& Anne Tobin) S/V Salazar - Can 54955 C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67 Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia On 10 November 2012 14:32, Mark G <mjg...@comcast.net> wrote: > > After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally able > to easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year. I sail with a > 135-140% Genoa on a furler. On the day everything clicked it was furled to > about 100-110%. Since then, I have made furling the Genoa to 100-110% the > first step of heaving-to. It makes sense to me that, since heaving-to is > all about balancing the sails, sail area forward would be a significant > factor. But on a boat without a furler this can't be accomplished without > a sail change, etc. So I'm thinking the same thing might be accomplished > by positioning the main sail with the sheet or the traveler. Can anybody > weigh in on their experience, particularly with the 25 Mk1? > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/79ec67ce/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:12:17 -0500 From: Joe Della Barba <j...@dellabarba.com> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Stus-List Pelicans Message-ID: <9710abe3-2bdf-4331-9529-71a905cc4...@dellabarba.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am on the way to rock hall and pelicans are going by begging for food from a crab boat. Not sure why they are not in Florida for the winter. Joe Coquina > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/19cb7b9d/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:17:27 -0400 From: Rich Knowles <r...@sailpower.ca> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Pelicans Message-ID: <c507eb63-abc7-4dcb-8289-983a3edd7...@sailpower.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe they had to stay home to vote? Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2012-11-10, at 15:12, Joe Della Barba <j...@dellabarba.com> wrote: I am on the way to rock hall and pelicans are going by begging for food from a crab boat. Not sure why they are not in Florida for the winter. Joe Coquina > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/951784f7/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:18:55 -0500 From: "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List deck hatch leak Message-ID: <027301cdbf78$3a75c5b0$af615110$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mark; The A&H hatch on my 38 has a different style of hold down than the hatch on my 25 mk1. The 38 has knobs on the outside of the lens and handles inside to dog sown the hatch. The 25 has an arrangement with a threaded knob on a threaded shaft that tightens against a ?fork? that is cast into the inside of the frame. Sort of like the arrangement you find on an opening port on the side of the cabin. My 25 is much like yours, no leaks but crazed and showing the effects of age. I don?t plan to touch it until it starts to leak. My experience with the hatch on the 38 was that the hold down screws in the frame (12 I think) were ?? flat head sheet metal screws about 1 ?? to 2? long. They were screwed into a solid fiberglass frame in the deck layup ? no core. I would presume the 25 to be similar but have no proof of that. The screws came out with a large Phillips head screwdriver (#2?) and only moderate effort. There was butyl on the threads of the screws. I removed the lens from the hatch frame I was refurbishing after removing the dogging hardware, and took it to a local glass shop. They used it as a pattern to make the new lens, drill the holes for the hold down screws, and machine out the recesses for the seals under the hatch dogs. Cost about $120 for the new lens. Cautionary notes: 1) The new lens was ?? thick instead of 3/8? ? which seemed like a good idea. When they machined the recesses for the seals, the shop kept the same thickness under the seal as on the old lens, so the recess ended up 1/8? deeper on the new lens and I ended up putting a couple of neoprene washers under the seals to bring them up flush with the top surface of the lens. 2) they seem to have drilled the screw holes before machining the recesses, and then turned the lens 180 degrees before machining the recesses. Guess what? The hole sapcing is slightly off between the front and the back of the hatch. I had to enlarge the holes slightly with my handy-dandy Dremmel tool. Make sure the glass shop matches the old lens exactly. I bedded the new lens with Sikaflex 295UV and Sika primer. Just follow the directions on the packaging. Cost from Jamestown Distributors was around $160 or so, IIRC. The most time consuming part of the process was removing the old silicone that had been put into the hatch to try to seal the lens. Silicone will not stick to polycarbonate, and Sikaflex will not stick to silicone. I used a razor knife to scrape off most of the silicone, and then a silicone remover called Motsenbocker?s Lift Off Caulk and Silcone remover. Can?t recall where I bought it, but they have a website at www.liftoffinc.com . The process of cleaning the hatch took at least 6 hours ? silicone seems to be pretty tenacious stuff. The refurbished hatch has been in place for about 10 months now, and no leaks yet (knock wood). Hope this helps with your project. Rick Brass Imzadi -1976 C&C 38 mk1 la Belle Aurore -1975 C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:11 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List deck hatch leak Rick, I may take on the same project on my '73 25 Mk1 next spring. According to A&H what I have is the "old style" XR200, which is a 20" square hatch. My existing hatch doesn't leak, not under the frame, not under the acrylic But the acrylic is badly crazed and the latches (threaded knobs) are missing. Replacement hardware is no longer available for this hatch, and I've had no luck at marine consignment shops after 5 years of looking. I've jury-rigged some latches. So I guess you could say this project is primarily to improve the appearance of the hatch. I recently salvaged '74 25 Mk1 hull #301 and took the hatch among other things. My experience was the same: screws came out easily, frame required some prying with a putty knife, sealant appeared to be butyl. According to A&H this is the newer style XR200. As you said below the different generations of A&H hatches don't use the same hardware, hinges or frame. A&H even said there is a 1/8" or 1/4" difference in the overall size. The hatch from the salvage boat is complete with all the hardware, but the acrylic is badly crazed. On this hatch, the acrylic is screwed to the frame in 8 places. I assume this is a previous acrylic replacement. There is also evidence it leaked under the acrylic as a previous owner applied lots of additional sealant. I've got quotes from Select Plastics and Hammerhead Nautical to refurb the salvage hatch, or should I say, to replace the acrylic. Has anyone attempted to reanodize or paint the frame? What was your experience reinstalling the frame? On the salvage boat the frame screws came out easily. I suspect they were screwed directly into a soggy balsa core. If it's the same on my boat, I'm thinking I may have to do a core repair before I can reinstall the hatch. (I replaced the chainplates last year and that turned into a significant core repair.) Did you have to do a core repair? Did you fill the existing holes and drill new ones? Is thru-bolting an option? I'm concerned I may not get enough compression on the seal without thru-bolts. If it wasn't for the missing hardware, I'd keep the existing hatch and replace the acrylic - either on the boat or by just removing the top of the hatch at the hinge Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:11:26 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Stus-List deck hatch leak Imzadi had the original 27? square A&H hatch on the foredeck. I Had bought a used hatch some time ago, and planned to refurb that hatch and install it on the existing frame (which did not leak). So my first question is why pull the frame if it isn?t leaking and you are planning to refurbish/reseal the lens in the hatch? For me, it turned out that there are older and newer style A&H hatches and that the hinge arrangement is different enough that my refurbished hatch would not fit the existing frame. I took out all of the screws holding the hatch down and tried to lift the frame ? no joy. The hatch frame was bedded with gray butyl (I scraped a small sample from under the edge to determine what the sealant was), but boy was it tenacious. Finally forced a putty knife between the frame and deck in several places to break the seal, and used a wide pry bar as a lever the frame off the deck. My point is that the sealant could be butyl. And, of course, the second point is that when you reinstall the frame DO NOT use 5200. Rick Brass Washington, NC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/5210b8eb/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:22:22 -0600 From: "LKL Architects" <lklarchite...@gmail.com> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List deck hatch leak Message-ID: <FEA85BDB21144ED8B8A33A43E6DB586E@LloydPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" LkL Thanks for all the good responses.....I feel much better with going forward....will let the list know what happens.... Lloyd Lippe Finesse 85 Landfall 39 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/a5e016a1/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:40:28 -0500 From: "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to Message-ID: <02af01cdbf7b$3d1a5170$b74ef450$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I heave-to with Belle fairly frequently to socialize, eat lunch, sunbathe, etc. She has a 155 headsail most of the time, and occasionally in higher winds a 110 lapper. To heave-to on starboard tack I start on port and sheet in the genoa tight as I turn into the wind. Boom is close to the centerline of the boat. Once the boat stalls and the genoa is back winded, the boat will start to fall off to starboard. Tiller goes as far to port as possible and gets lashed off. Traveler is moved up or down until the boat stops and oscillation is acceptable. Generally the end of the boom is about 1 to 2 feet below the centerline of the boat. I adjust the mainsheet and vang, and the genoa cars, as needed to spill wind out of the top of the sails depending on how hard the wind is blowing. In lighter winds the boat basically parks. I?ve done it a time or two in a brief squall, and the boat makes headway and leeway at around ? knot. Practice in wind under 10 knots, it is pretty easy to do. Rick Brass Imzadi -1976 C&C 38 mk1 la Belle Aurore -1975 C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Heaving-to After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally able to easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year. I sail with a 135-140% Genoa on a furler. On the day everything clicked it was furled to about 100-110%. Since then, I have made furling the Genoa to 100-110% the first step of heaving-to. It makes sense to me that, since heaving-to is all about balancing the sails, sail area forward would be a significant factor. But on a boat without a furler this can't be accomplished without a sail change, etc. So I'm thinking the same thing might be accomplished by positioning the main sail with the sheet or the traveler. Can anybody weigh in on their experience, particularly with the 25 Mk1? Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/bbd31c72/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:50:13 -0500 From: "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: <kenhea...@gmail.com>, <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to Message-ID: <02b401cdbf7c$998c6fa0$cca54ee0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The point is to not have any flow around the headsail, which in my experience is always backwinded. The backed headsail pushes the bow down until the main develops thrust and moves the boat forward, then the rudder pushes the bow back up until the boat stalls out and the backed headsail pushes the bow back down. Now I do roll in the 140 on my 38 when I heave-to. I have a mark at 90% on the foot of the sail mostly for that purpose. But that is because I have a carbon fiber sail on a roller, and being up against the shrouds is not good for the sail. I prefer to have chafe in the sheets than damage to the carbon fibers. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:56 PM To: cnc-list Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to Hi Mark, I'm no expert but it would seem to me you need a fairly small head-sail to get most any boat to heave to properly as the head-sail is normally backwinded as part of heaving to. Back-winding a sail much bigger than a 100% would put it hard on the spreaders which isn't going to be good for the sail or for airflow around the sail. Ciao. Ken Heaton (& Anne Tobin) S/V Salazar - Can 54955 C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67 Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia On 10 November 2012 14:32, Mark G <mjg...@comcast.net> wrote: After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally able to easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year. I sail with a 135-140% Genoa on a furler. On the day everything clicked it was furled to about 100-110%. Since then, I have made furling the Genoa to 100-110% the first step of heaving-to. It makes sense to me that, since heaving-to is all about balancing the sails, sail area forward would be a significant factor. But on a boat without a furler this can't be accomplished without a sail change, etc. So I'm thinking the same thing might be accomplished by positioning the main sail with the sheet or the traveler. Can anybody weigh in on their experience, particularly with the 25 Mk1? Mark _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20121110/0da5bf50/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:59:51 -0500 From: Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Heaving-to Message-ID: <99844f38-705e-4104-9efe-20e8e823a...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" My dad taught me how to heave to on our 1971 C&C 27. As Rick says, it's great for socializing in any amount of air. We hove to for a couple of hours one year in fairly light airs halfway between Bermuda and St Martin so we could eat Thanksgiving dinner, on many other occasions, a reefed main or mizzen and a mostly furled jib have let us be comfortable in big breeze and huge seas. The main thing to remember other than what I've seen here is that how hard the main is sheeted determines your angle to the wind and seas. Ease it to let your bow fall off more; sheet in to point more into the breeze. I usually heave to if we encounter strong head winds at sea, and I expect them to shift. There's no sense bashing up the boat and crew if the wind is going to shift or ease in a few hours or a day. Andy Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ +401 965-5260 On Nov 10, 2012, at 2:40 PM, "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> wrote: > I heave-to with Belle fairly frequently to socialize, eat lunch, sunbathe, > etc. She has a 155 headsail most of the time, and occasionally in higher > winds a 110 lapper. > > To heave-to on starboard tack I start on port and sheet in the genoa tight as > I turn into the wind. Boom is close to the centerline of the boat. Once the > boat stalls and the genoa is back winded, the boat will start to fall off to > starboard. Tiller goes as far to port as possible and gets lashed off. > Traveler is moved up or down until the boat stops and oscillation is > acceptable. Generally the end of the boom is about 1 to 2 feet below the > centerline of the boat. I adjust the mainsheet and vang, and the genoa cars, > as needed to spill wind out of the top of the sails depending on how hard the > wind is blowing. > > In lighter winds the boat basically parks. I?ve done it a time or two in a > brief squall, and the boat makes headway and leeway at around ? knot. > > Practice in wind under 10 knots, it is pretty easy to do. > > > Rick Brass > Imzadi -1976 C&C 38 mk1 > la Belle Aurore -1975 C&C 25 mk1 > Washington, NC > > > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:33 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Stus-List Heaving-to > > > After 6 years of experimenting on an infrequent basis I was finally able to > easily and repeatedly heave-to my 25 Mk1 this year. I sail with a 135-140% > Genoa on a furler. On the day everything clicked it was furled to about > 100-110%. Since then, I have made furling the Genoa to 100-110% the first > step of heaving-to. It makes sense to me that, since heaving-to is all about > balancing the sails, sail area forward would be a significant factor. But on > a boat without a furler this can't be accomplished without a sail change, > etc. So I'm thinking the same thing might be accomplished by positioning the > main sail with the sheet or the traveler. Can anybody weigh in on their > experience, particularly with the 25 Mk1? > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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