The modern c&c's have swept spreaders. 99, 115 and likely the rest. it is imp a superior setup. unfortunately my 33 does not have them
Mike Persistence Halifax ________________________________ From: CnC-List [cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] on behalf of Josh Muckley via CnC-List [cnc-list@cnc-list.com] Sent: April 28, 2015 11:48 PM To: C&C List; David Knecht Subject: Re: Stus-List rig tuning David, It depends on if you have swept spreaders. To my knowledge C&C didn't sweep the spreaders. Hunters OTOH are known for their swept spreaders. Swept spreaders pull the mast aft and create head stay tension. Without swept spreaders the backstay is about all there is. Some boats have running backs or check stays. When everything is loose the topping lift and mainsheet are the remaining support. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Apr 28, 2015 10:21 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Hi Dennis- I realize that you would generally tighten the forestay with the backstay as the wind increases. However, that assumes some starting point of how much sag there is with no backstay tension and it is that starting point that I am unsure how to set. I am presuming that there can be such a thing as too much sag because the forestay turnbuckle is set too loose. Dave On Apr 28, 2015, at 10:10 PM, Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com<mailto:capt...@gmail.com>> wrote: Simple question. Complex answer. Look at the shape of the headsail. Notably, the amount of sag in the luff. Forestay tension is primarily regulated by backstay tension. There is no good guide for pounds of force. Your headsail design and age, choice of sail (#1, #2, #3), rig tune, wind strength and sea state will influence forestay tension. Forestay sag affects the depth of the headsail. (Halyard or luff tension affects the position of maximum draft.) Forestay sag also affects the angle of entry of the headsail. In light air or leftover seas, increase sag (i.e. less tension.). In flatter water and more breeze, decrease sag (more tension). On Touche' we don't look at the gauge on the hydraulic backstay adjuster. We have a dinghy batten taped to the adjuster. The batten is marked with different color tapes. We use it as a general guide to reproduce tension based on our experience with the boat and our observation of the forestay and headsail shape. Our general guidelines are: Green - light air or waves Yellow - moderate breeze, some waves Red - heavy breeze or flatter waters Black - death, Holy Crap! Beam us up, Scotty! We're going to die! Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:33 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Speaking of forestay, what is the proper way to determine the correct forestay tension? Dave On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Tim Goodyear via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Robert, I think the only things missing from your setup numbers are rake and pre-bend. Our forestay length is also very easy to adjust (not that I do often). Thanks, Tim On Apr 28, 2015, at 4:01 PM, robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: What Dwight is referencing is a race we did with a Kirby 25 and were embarrassed on the race course. And we were especially bad on starboard tack....we kept wondering all day what was wrong....almost blaming one another for our poor performance, e.g. you can't be pointing high enough, you can't have my sails trimmed. After the race, first we discovered the shroud turnbuckles were not pinned.....I thought they were because I thought I pinned them after I tensioned rig tension. Dwight discovered by applying Pythagorean's theorem that the top of the mast was out of column by 18" to port. Any wonder why the boat was not performing the way it/we previously did. That never happened a second time! The 32's rig is set at cap shrouds 1,300 lbs., lowers 1,200, intermediates 500 lbs., backstay at rest 1,000 lbs., babystay 600 lbs......haven't measured the headstay tension but it is about 4" to 6" bowed with a 135% under power. And since I stopped racing, I have become lazy and am just happy to have my mast in column and the rig not bending/stressing the boat, and go sailing almost every day during our sailing season..... averaged over 100 days per season for the last 5 years on AZURA....and that does not include a dozen or so sails each season on other people's boats. Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-04-28 7:15 PM, dwight veinot wrote: Robert I think you might have learned the hard way about what rig tune means in that race we had with the K25 when we got whooped big time, especially on stbd tack...no good at all if the mast isn't plumb, right??? I am not sure if anyone can feel tension as accurately as the gage does it and the less expensive Loos gage for wire rigging ain't too bad either...i like it, at least it tells me stbd is the same tension as port but you have to use it right...everybody here, don't ever underestimate the importance of rig tune for performance, and that means perfromance as a function of expected wind strength and as wind strength varies so does optimum rig tension on these older boats, especially for pointing...y'all have to find out the hard way by experimenting with your own craft...a gage is essential for that experiment...Rob has the right gear for tuning rod rigging, he sets his rig up year after year for what works best on his 32, he doesn't race Azura so he doesn't vary his optimum rig tension for wind conditions all that ofeten, maybe a little more tension when the heavy fall winds hit here...no matter he likes what he got and that's OK until another 32 on the same point of sail blows him away...everyone is still learning, me, you and him too, get a gage and have some fun experimenting...watch you angle to apparent wind and your speed over ground on the GPS!!! Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net<mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:40 PM, robert via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: On everything up top on the standing rigging, I now use only SS cotter pins.....this is because on several occasions, and I can not explain how it happened, the split rings vanished. Luckily, nothing fell down before the missing split ring was detected. I have no explanation how the split rings disappeared but I do know that since being replaced with cotter pins, there has not been been a missing pin. The thread Subject is "rig tuning"......on that note I have rod rigging and a Loos RT10 tuning gauge is a must for me......I can't pull on shrouds and tell how much tension is there. Now someone will chime in and tell me to measure my threads in the turnbuckles. But how do you initially do that without a reference point with the benefit of a gauge. When we were campaigning our Kirby 25, we made rig adjustments depending on the conditions. We still used a Loos gauge to take the guessing out of the equation. I shouldn't admit this but I will.....on my shroud turnbuckles, I use the small plastic pull/lock strings (or whatever they are called). Once I get my rig tuned early in the Spring after a few sails, it stays that way all season unless I adjust it after periodic checking with the Loos gauge and sighting the mast, of course. Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. With the cover just removed and no launch date set yet. On 2015-04-28 2:02 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List wrote: Tim, How often do you make adjustments? Do you have a tension gauge for rod rigging? Joel On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Tim Goodyear via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: I got those (wrap pins) last year - and am very happy with them - no sharp edges, no messing around with rigging tape to make adjustments. Tim Mojito C&C 35-3 Branford, CT On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Might give these a try too. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|10918|2303303|2303306&id=2546248<http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C10918%7C2303303%7C2303306&id=2546248> On Apr 28, 2015 9:48 AM, "Pete Shelquist via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: A comment was made to me the other day that if an insurance company sees split rings at the rigs turnbuckles (vs cotter pins) that coverage will be null and void. I found nothing in my policy stating this detail. Anyone else ever hear of this? Thanks, Pete _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551<tel:301%20541%208551> _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries 1990 C&C 34+ New London, CT <pastedGraphic.tiff> _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries 1990 C&C 34+ New London, CT _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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