Thanks all who assisted - problem solved. We did send the pump and injectors in to performance diesel in Markham ON. - recommended! Pump was rebuilt but it was not the problem. Injectors fine. This left the governor. Fascinating little gadget. Conceptually, As Rpm increases the centrifugal governor attempts to restrict fuel by closing a fuel supply valve, fighting against a determined opposing spring which tries to increase fuel by opening that valve. This way as revs drop, the centrifuge loses power, the spring wins and more fuel is supplied. Rpm is held constant irrespective of load. This eternal cosmic battle is limited at one extreme by the speed lever, (aka the throttle) at the other - the wide open end - by a stop. If the spring is stretched and cannot pull the valve to the wide open stop, the fuel valve only opens partway. the fuel pump only operates over part of its range, and revs under load are thereby limited. I shortened the spring which now snaps the lever smartly back against its stop, opening the fuel slider fully. The governor now has a worthy opponent and the engine runs properly for the first time in years. The owner will spend the $10 to replace the spring. Hopefully that helps someone else down the road. On the universal this can be easily checked and repaired simply by removing the fuel speed control plate. 30 min total to do the job.
Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 8, 2021, at 6:33 AM, Dave S <syerd...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks Neil - I did find and have been studying that manual and the parts > list as well. The drawings are just ok and the Service and adjustment > information is a bit light but they (and others) do repeatedly warn that the > high pressure pump is not for the faint of heart. I’d be tempted to > carefully tackle it if we’re my engine but discretion suggests I should help > him by verifying the few remaining unverified bits and maybe stop there. > (He’s not mechanically inclined.) > That said, Throwing in the towel on something like a centrifugal governor > does bug me a bit though! (Lol) > > Thanks for taking the time - you’ve been extremely helpful. > > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 10:56 PM, Neil Gallagher via CnC-List >>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >>> >> Dave, >> >> This link below should bring up the service manual for the M20, on p. 17 of >> the .pdf, Fig. 37 shows the HP pump with the governor on the left end. It's >> kind of integral to the pump, looks difficult to remove separate from the >> pump. If sticking is the issue one thought would be to try to flush some >> diesel oil, maybe with some Marvel Mystery Oil added, in through governor >> while it's in place. You'd have to open up the top of the unit, which gets >> tricky pretty fast, but if you could just get a gap you could flush oil >> through. You could hold the compression release down and spin the engine >> while spraying. After that I'd flush with lube oil and do an oil change. >> >> As I mentioned I took one of these apart last year, contact me off line if >> you want to talk more about it. >> >> https://www.google.com/search?q=universal+westerbeke+M20+governor&client=firefox-b-1-d&biw=1017&bih=651&ei=FBY4YeOmLe2l5NoP0Zq34AI&oq=universal+westerbeke+M20+governor&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKABOgcIABBHELADOgoIABBHELADEMkDOgUIIRCrAjoHCCEQChCgAUoFCDwSATFKBAhBGAFQnt0YWObtGGCj7xhoAXAAeACAAawBiAGOCJIBAzQuNZgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjjgLj3oO7yAhXtElkFHVHNDSwQ4dUDCA0&uact=5 >> >> Neil Gallagher >> Weatherly, 35-1 >> Glen Cove, NY >> >> On 9/7/2021 10:36 PM, Dave via CnC-List wrote: >>> Thanks Neil – We did check for fuel returning but only at varying no-load >>> RPMs, not under load. >>> There should be no air or water in the system- we also ran it from a jury >>> rigged tank, no filter, clean fuel, so I’m pretty sure those basics were >>> eliminated. >>> No offense taken – most of the time people do miss these things. >>> We haven’t torn things down too far yet. Any way to check for a sticking >>> governor? >>> Dave >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows >>> >>> From: Neil Gallagher via CnC-List >>> Sent: September 7, 2021 10:13 PM >>> To: Dave via CnC-List >>> Cc: Neil Gallagher >>> Subject: Stus-List Re: universal M20 diesel question >>> >>> Dave, >>> >>> Sure sounds like a fuel issue. The governor does not restrict flow, it >>> sets the rotation of the plungers in the HP pump which controls how much >>> fuel in delivered to the injectors. The fuel not used or which leaks by >>> the pump plungers is what returns to the tank. Under light load you'll >>> hardly see any return fuel, more as the load goes up. >>> >>> The governor works by a balance between a spring and flyweights, the >>> throttle lever adjusts the spring tension and engine speed sets the >>> flyweight position. A quick look at the M20 tech manual shows the governor >>> is right in the HP pump assembly, it's possible the governor is sticking >>> and causing slow response but it may also be worn fuel pump. You'd have to >>> pull the whole assembly and send for rebuild. Cost me about $700 for that >>> on an M3-20B engine last year on my club launch. >>> >>> Before that extreme, however, let me ask the more obvious questions (don't >>> mean to offend, just asking): any water in the fuel? That could give a >>> slow response, or maybe an air leak on the fuel supply hoses, though it >>> sounds like you've checked that? >>> >>> Neil Gallagher >>> Weatherly 35-1 >>> Glen Cove, NY >>> >>> >>> On 9/7/2021 9:16 PM, Dave via CnC-List wrote: >>> Evening all. Trying to help a neighbour here with a diesel issue. His >>> engine will rev freely at idle but with the transmission engaged in either >>> forward or reverse, revs increase very slowly and only to 1800-2000 RPM on >>> the tach. (whether tach is accurate or not, RPM under load is much lower >>> than no-load, and RPM increases quite slowly.) >>> We have verified that neither the exhaust system nor the fuel supply to the >>> high pressure pump is obstructed. Air Intake is clear. The speed lever >>> works smoothly to its full travel. The compression release is not >>> engaged. The engine runs a new facet electric fuel pump with plenty of >>> flow. >>> When the engine is running, no fuel returns to the tank via the return >>> line. The return line is not blocked, at least not downstream from the >>> return barb at the injector. I am not sure under what circumstances the >>> fuel should return to the tank in a diesel, as the return occurs after the >>> high pressure pump. >>> >>> All This leads me to suspect a fuel (volume) problem but i am not exactly >>> sure where to look next. I believe all that’s left are injectors and >>> high pressure pump. The high pressure pump has a governor, not sure if >>> that functions by restricting fuel flow. >>> >>> Any thoughts? >>> >>> Many thanks! Dave 33-2 >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >>> Stu >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >>> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >>> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >>> Stu >> >> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with >> the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - >> Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
