Steve, thanks for bringing up these points. You are absolutely right, we should be curious and seek to learn (and document) as much as possible about bird identification and distribution in the state, especially as the environment is changing so rapidly. Ordinarily, I would fully support classifying Colorado birds to the subspecies level. In the case of the redpolls, this can only be done if the subspecies are well defined, and apparently they are not. So rather than getting an accurate distribution of redpoll subspecies, conservative identification practices are leading to strongly biased conclusions, such as the one you quoted: the ratio of Common Redpoll:Hoary Redpoll sightings of approximately 200:1. This assumes that any redpoll not definitively identified as a Hoary Redpoll is indeed a Common Redpoll.
What would be a practical approach to learning more about redpoll distribution in Colorado? I don’t think written descriptions or photos will be sufficient for future arbiters to look back at this redpoll invasion and determine which redpolls these are. On the other hand, a DNA bank would do just the trick. I suspect the full genetic story of redpoll taxonomy has yet to be worked out, but eventually it will be. Then, old records could be correctly identified to subspecies IF the DNA from those records is banked (and then eventually tested). I suspect the Museum of Science and Nature would be willing to bank feathers for example (Feathers are an adequate source for DNA). Perhaps the RMBO would be willing to set up mist nets or other traps and capture a set of redpolls for this purpose. There is a small chance that a banded bird might be recaptured later, which would also be useful information. This could be a nice little project for someone (perhaps a university student), and I’ll bet funding could be obtained quickly from the CFO project fund. Would anyone from the Museum, RMBO or the CFO Board wish to comment on this proposal? Nick Komar From: Steven Mlodinow Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 1:47 AM To: cobirds@googlegroups.com Subject: [cobirds] Redpolls Alas, I must question Nick's suggestions. Do we really want to throw the baby out with the bath water? Yes,, redpolls are hard to identify. Yes, there are some taxonomic questions, with some authorities lumping all, and others splitting them into 5. As we struggle with junco subspecies, and with understanding the distribution of montane and eastern forms of WB Nuthatches, should we just label them all "redpolls?" I think not. If we truly do not understand what is going on in CO, then we should redouble our efforts to do so. Learn something for ourselves and contribute to general knowledge as well. However, it should be noted that Colorado doth not exist in isolation, for we do know that both Hoary and Common Redpolls are invading south across much of the continent in a huge way. Yes, some of the Commons are paler, some are darker, but I do question whether that truly indicates their latitude of origin. Those differences between northern and southern breeding Common Redpolls truly are averages. But it doesn't really matter. We have many dark Common Redpolls, some pale ones, and undoubtedly, a very few Hoaries. Estimates of Hoary:Common Redpolls in prior irruptions from central and western USA have ranged in the 1:200 to 1:500 range. So, be careful, most definitely. Fire those cameras up. Certainly. Good photos will be very helpful in making these identifications. But just be happy with redpoll and not challenge thine mind? Methinks not! It is not a matter of "convincing," but rather 'tis a matter of studying and learning. Of curiosity. Happy Polling Red Steve Mlodinow Longmont CO -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To post to this group, send email to cobirds@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cobirds+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To post to this group, send email to cobirds@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cobirds+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
