As an old birder who is familiar with all these names I'd prefer to keep them. If I was a brand new birder who was trying to sort out hundreds of species I'd much prefer names that would help me do that. I'm going to New Zealand in January so will be in the latter camp then. Those names are often in Maori !
On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 1:13:43 PM UTC-7 Carla Richardson wrote: > I am certainly not on the list for political discussions. But I will say > one thing and one thing only. Please do not call the United States "evil." > (From a previous post) > > Back to appropriate topic, personally I wish bird names would stay the > same as named by the people who discovered them. It is not fair to judge > others from other times, in a general sense. I'm pretty neutral about it, > though, I can understand the point, either way. > > As a VERY NEW birder, it's hard enough to remember names without the names > changing continually. > > Carla > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 12:44 PM David Suddjian <dsud...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi CoBirders, >> >> *List moderator note*. >> This has been an interesting (and polite) discussion, and certainly >> appropriate to CoBirds on the whole. As it proceeds I remind list members >> that CoBirds is about reporting on *birding in Colorado*, *Colorado >> birds* and things pertinent to these topics. For this issue, where there >> are strong opinions and deep feelings, I encourage the discussion to steer >> away from the lives of historic figures in contexts outside of Colorado >> birding. We can look those things up. Discussion of bird names and the >> plan and process to change them is fine. You know what I'm trying to say. >> >> Thank you, >> >> David Suddjian >> CoBirds moderator >> Littleton, CO >> >> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 10:13 AM Susan Rosine <u5b2...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm not quite sure why we're still bringing up McCown, since "his" bird >>> already has a new moniker. >>> >>> Interesting that you note "the Confederacy and the evils that it stood >>> for". >>> >>> Ten of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, and twelve presidents >>> altogether had slaves at some point. Yet, we have Washington, Jefferson, >>> Jackson and Grant on our money, stamps, etc. >>> >>> We also still honor men who pushed the Native American Indians from >>> their land. >>> >>> Evil Confederacy? How about evil United States of America? >>> >>> If at one point, it was simply decided that birds named after humans was >>> stupid in general, and therefore would all be renamed, that would be fine. >>> Annoying, because it's a lot of name changes all at once, but fine. >>> However, this all started because it was discovered a few of these men were >>> not perfect, wonderful human beings. Then there had to be intense study >>> into "just how evil" they really were. People started taking sides. These >>> men were sort of on trial posthumously. Good or bad, cool dude or evil dude? >>> >>> AOS finally decided, well let's just changed them all, so we don't have >>> to dig into each person's life. That's what I find to be ridiculous. They >>> should have just changed them all in the first place and we wouldn't be >>> having this discussion. >>> >>> Susan Rosine >>> Brighton >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 9:20 AM mille...@gmail.com <mille...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Whether the mischaracterization of John McCown in this message as a >>>> "brave hero who took the deadly risk to speaking against the Confederacy?" >>>> is deliberately provocative or just ignorant I can't begin to diagnose, >>>> but >>>> it is certainly "fact-free." McCown is indeed credited with calling the >>>> Confederacy a "damned stinking cotton oligarchy," but this was not some >>>> repudiation of the Confederacy and all it stood for. No, it was made in >>>> the >>>> heat of a political squabble he was involved in with Jefferson Davis and >>>> some of the other generals he had a disagreement with. The fact is that >>>> John McCown resigned his United States Army commission at the beginning of >>>> the war to take up arms against his country in defense of the Confederacy >>>> and the evils it stood for, and he remained a commissioned general in that >>>> force until the very end of the war. >>>> >>>> In any case, this example alone I think neatly illustrates *precisely* >>>> why Bird Names for Birds originally formed, and why it has resulted in >>>> this >>>> decision by the AOS. If this is the quality of the supposed "history >>>> lessons" we can expect to receive from an eponym, all diversity and >>>> inclusion questions aside, we should have consigned these to the dustbin >>>> decades ago. >>>> >>>> vr/ >>>> Max Miller >>>> Lakewood, CO >>>> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 4:06:13 PM UTC-6 Robert Righter wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> What a fascinating discussion we are all having on Cobirds about the >>>>> implication of changing the names of birds. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Birds named after historical individuals offer important links to the >>>>> rich history, good and bad, about how our country was formed but also >>>>> how >>>>> the history of birds evolved from hunting to the trill of bird watching, >>>>> to >>>>> the impressive transformation from birding into an important scientific >>>>> organization, American Ornithological Union AOU. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here are some brief examples of some: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Lewis’s Woodpecker, named after Meriwether Lewis, the co-leader of the >>>>> stupendously successful Lewis and Clark Expedition in the early 1800s >>>>> which >>>>> explored all the new land west to the Pacific Ocean. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> John Cassin (Cassin’s Finch, Cassin’s Kingbird and many more) from the >>>>> Philadelphia Academy of Natural Science was one of the foremost >>>>> ornithologist of the ninetieth century describing numerous new bird >>>>> species. He fought form the Union Army during the Civil War, captured by >>>>> the Confederate Army, and spent the rest of the war in the sadistic Libby >>>>> Prison, not many survived, he was lucky, but died shortly afterwards >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> John McCowen, (McCown’s Longspur), now the Thick-billed Longspur. was >>>>> a Major General in the Confederate Army, He was a brilliant tactician >>>>> with >>>>> just a few hundred men and one piece of artillery, he defeated an entire >>>>> division of Union cavalry. McCown became disillusioned with the purpose >>>>> of >>>>> Confederacy and argued against it’s goals and is is quoted as saying >>>>> about >>>>> the Confederacy, *“…a damned stinking cotton oligarchy.* >>>>> >>>>> Was McCown a villain or a brave hero who took the deadly risk to >>>>> speaking against the Confederacy? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steller’s Jay named after Georg Steller a brilliant German scientist >>>>> who was asked by Peter the Great to explore Russia, which he did during >>>>> the >>>>> winter by dog sled. Hooked up with Captain Bering and set sail to the >>>>> east >>>>> and where they discovered Alaska, then spent years ship wrecked on >>>>> Bering >>>>> Island in the middle of the Aleutian Islands. He survived most others >>>>> didn’t. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is just a taste of the intriguing history that underlies each of >>>>> the bird species named after historic naturalist and ornithologist. More >>>>> involved biographies of each can be found in the *Colorado >>>>> Field Ornithologist* Journals or just tap into Google & Wikipedia >>>>> >>>>> Do you think this level of information enhance bird watching or not. >>>>> >>>>> Bob Righter >>>>> Denver CO >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to cob...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >>>> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >>>> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >>>> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists >>>> https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to cobirds+u...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/adcc07e6-24ad-498d-817c-3a1f8d6d36d0n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/adcc07e6-24ad-498d-817c-3a1f8d6d36d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to cob...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >>> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >>> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >>> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to cobirds+u...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CACPnx8WxHW_pb3uL-C5BY6Nc8cdJ1g8dT3GEdzURdsu6ocm5NA%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CACPnx8WxHW_pb3uL-C5BY6Nc8cdJ1g8dT3GEdzURdsu6ocm5NA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >> To post to this group, send email to cob...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Colorado Birds" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to cobirds+u...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAGj6RoqddDq6MUf--vWG54yymuDgW77gE%2Bw7cwo53HV4Xqx1ow%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAGj6RoqddDq6MUf--vWG54yymuDgW77gE%2Bw7cwo53HV4Xqx1ow%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To post to this group, send email to cobirds@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cobirds+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/dbc9ef0d-61a1-420f-8018-be509c59ce5cn%40googlegroups.com.
