RE: .NET vs. Cocoon

[Jeremy Aston]

Hi Jeremy (top name btw ;-))   As other posters have pointed out .NET (ASP at the mo really) is not a framework in the way C2 is hence you are not really comparing like to like.  No doubt you could build a .NET version of Cocoon but as far as I can see most ASP apps have one big problem that overrides all - the developers.  The great thing about MS is that they open up alot of technology, give heaps of info away but this all comes at a price.  Many asp apps are hacks (in the crap coding sense of the word).  Many (not all) ASP developers use the neat tools MS give ya to pull stuff together and end up writing unstable, unscalable, unmanagable hacks.  They have no real understanding of design and good web app architecture and write crap.  Talk to them about lowl level site customisation, branding, internationalisation, content management and you see the eyes glaze over.  I know I have just taken over a team of them...   You can write a dog of an app with J2EE.  There are plenty of charlatans posing as Java developers.  JSP has all the problems of ASP and is equally hacked.  No doubt there will be many things that will be exposed as bad practice with C2 BUT....   To really get into Java demands a certain level of OO understanding and C2 is built on some best practice of how to solve MVC issues.  Work with Cocoon (and/or other frameworks such as Struts) and you are working within an environment that is encouraging best practice.  On top of that you have got open source, a thriving community and lots of free code.  To me Cocoon (and J2EE for that matter) is all about web *application* development not merely adding some dynamic stuff to a web site.   Don't get me wrong - you can build quality sites using ASP, good design practice applies across the board and MS have their approaches for multi channel delivery but there are loads more ASP hackers (again in the dodgy sense of the word) that ASP developers.  .NET will just compound that cos ti will solve problems but not educate the development community enough.   I know the problem is really coders who don't know enough about design but I believe that the ASP/.NET approach helps coders ignore and bypass design - many more Java based coders understand good design and C2 et al are great applications of that.   All my ever so humble opinion but I am sure I'll need to duck the incoming......   jez -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Crosbie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 16 November 2001 18:49 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: .NET vs. Cocoon I work for a company who's presence is mostly associated with the wireless web although we do have a web presence. We support all sorts of devices (PDAs, phones, PocketPC, etc.) with each essentially having its own separate codebase which has become a maintenance nightmare. With WAP2.0 coming soon to a phone near you we want to avoid having to support so many codebases.   We realized this as a problem some months ago and began evaluating different technologies. I had been following Cocoon for some time and now with Cocoon in the release candidate stage it looks to be a solid solution. However another alternative has presented itself in the form of .NET which has gained some momentum. As far as my knowledge goes with .NET I still find Cocoon to be a superior solution to the problem than .NET. Has anyone done any comparisons between the two platforms that they are willing to share? Any information is greatly appreciated.   Jeremy Michael Crosbie Senior Software Engineer go2.com go2Address: US.CA.IRV.GO2