Late to the conversation, but my two cents: I would remove or make "MLIS a plus" . Like you, I've also noted the challenge that Libraries are facing while recruiting candidates with technical skills. Additionally, I am unaware of any library school that actually teaches library systems technology. As far as I can tell, most library systems folks learn on the job- I've certainly done my part in training library employees about how authentication and systems work and interact with each other.
Elizabeth -- <http://www.drew.edu/> *Elizabeth Leonard <http://www.drew.edu/directory/?q=email:eleonard&utm_source=FIL_Email_Footer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FIL%2BEmail%2BFooter>* | Director | University Library <http://www.drew.edu/library?utm_source=FIL_Email_Footer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FIL%2BEmail%2BFooter> Drew University | 36 Madison Ave | Madison, NJ 07940 973-408-3322 <9734083322> | drew.edu <http://www.drew.edu/?utm_source=FIL_Email_Footer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FIL%2BEmail%2BFooter> | @DrewUniversity <https://twitter.com/DrewUniversity> On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 11:00 PM CODE4LIB automatic digest system < lists...@lists.clir.org> wrote: > There are 21 messages totaling 1678 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? (20) > 2. Scanning a document with translation software > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 16:58:07 +1100 > From: Andrew Cunningham <lang.supp...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > It really comes down to the candidate. > > Formal qualifications are one aspect, but knowledge and experience of the > technology stack in use are important. I suspect the key criteria are more > around future plans for the library's core technology and ensuring you have > the skills you will need in the future. But someone with experience and > knowledge of MARC and linked data is going to be able to get more out of > your current system. The reality is you are unlikely to find a candidate > who is across everything, what's more important is flexibility, > adaptability, and the skills and drive to master their gaps. > > On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 at 10:24, Martin, Will <william.d.mar...@und.edu> > wrote: > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > If > > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > stuff? > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > -- > Andrew Cunningham > lang.supp...@gmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 13:13:33 +0000 > From: "Pennington, Buddy D." <penningt...@umkc.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > We are currently conducting a search for a systems librarian to support > our recent FOLIO implementation. We debated the MLIS requirement but > ultimately decided to keep it. Part of the position is working with > different functional groups so we felt like the position having an MLIS > would be a significant benefit. > > Buddy Pennington (He/him) > Head of Systems & Technology > Miller Nichols Library, 308D > 800 East 51st Street > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > Will > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 5:25 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be > a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT > System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, > clicking links, or responding to this email. > > All, > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position instead. > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > Will Martin > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services Chester Fritz Library > University of North Dakota he/his/him > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 08:26:41 -0500 > From: Cindy Bowen <cindy.bo...@georgetown.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Kate's questions are definitely good ones, and Eric's perspective seems > like the complement to mine--I'm a Systems Librarian with an MLIS, and my > work (so far!) has been mostly focused on Alma-side config and improving > the ways our metadata (usually MARC, but also some Dublin Core) is showing > up in Primo VE. My cataloging course in grad school has certainly helped, > but so has my previous experience, plus a fair bit of googling and > inquiries on listservs! I also have colleagues who are devoted to the > server/API/coding areas, so certain problems pass out of my realm and into > theirs. > > Since you said you've had difficulty in the past with getting candidates, > maybe listing the degree as preferred rather than required would increase > your odds of a favorable candidate? That seems like it might improve the > candidate pool, at least, and during the hiring process you'll be able to > decide who best suits your library needs whether they have a degree or not. > ~Cindy > > Cindy Bowen > Systems Librarian > Georgetown University > cindy.bo...@georgetown.edu > she/her/hers > @calimae > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 6:54 PM Eric Phetteplace <phett...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Will, > > > > As a Systems Librarian myself, *a lot* of what I do doesn't require an > > MLIS. Web dev, dev ops, data munging, API integration between systems, > etc. > > The only thing that gives me pause is that you've stated the position > will > > work primarily with your ILS, which is one area where a library > background > > is really helpful. You are not going to find many folks without a degree > > who know what MARC is, or are familiar with the intricacies of an ILS. > > Maybe that isn't an issue, my honest answer to your question is "I don't > > know", but it'd make me a little worried. People can, of course, pick up > > this knowledge over time, so maybe a related question is how much of a > > learning curve you're willing to accept. > > > > Best, > > Eric > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 3:32 PM <katherine.dei...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Two questions: > > > > > > 1. Are there benefits or advancement differences between a librarian > and > > > technical position at your institution? > > > > > > 2. Is the MLIS requirement strict or do you consider also equivalence > > such > > > as experience plus technical degrees? > > > > > > Kate Deibel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of > Martin, > > > Will > > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 6:25 PM > > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > > > > > All, > > > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing > the > > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > > instead. > > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is > that > > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > > > past > > > we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library degree > > and > > > the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your > systems > > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > one, > > > do > > > you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > If > > > you > > > don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > > > Will Martin > > > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services Chester Fritz Library > > > University of North Dakota he/his/him > > > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:20:57 +0000 > From: "Hammer, Erich F" <er...@albany.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Will, > > I am the "Head of Systems" here, and I don't think I would have been > considered for the job without my MLIS. I had 20 years experience in IT > (during which I worked through the degree) before being hired, and my > supervisor and team recognized that I had no actual Library experience. > They were willing to guide me because of my technical abilities, but the > first year was completely overwhelming. The complexity and lingo had my > brain struggling to comprehend how it all fit together. I believe I'm > doing OK at the job now, but I have to give enormous credit to my > incredible and dedicated employees and also recognize that the pandemic > shutdown -- when I was the only person in the building for several months > -- afforded me the opportunity to catch up and resolve problems that > couldn't be managed in short, 15 minute segments between meetings and other > crises. > > What I'm saying is that I honestly don't think the courses I took for my > degree did all that much to prepare me for this job. What it may have done > though is tell the hiring committee that I was/am interested in the > concepts and philosophies of libraries and information science and am > willing to continue learning. > > Maybe the MLIS degree should be an alternative to x years of library > experience (along with demonstrated technical skills). > > Erich > > > > On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 18:24, Will Martin eloquently inscribed: > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. The > > job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting > > the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that removing the > > library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In past we've had > > difficulty getting candidates who had both the library degree and the > > requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > one, do > > you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you > > don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either > > way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:30:45 +0000 > From: Tim McGeary <tim.mcge...@duke.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > At Duke, we have removed any specific degree requirements for our > technical positions, not just library degrees. We have found this greatly > increases diversity and quality of applicants. > > But I would suggest you go even further and remove as many buzzwords or > very specific technology requirements as possible, too. We learned these > would lead to applicant self-selecting out and not applying. Instead, we > focus on experience, techniques, and broad lists of exemplar technologies, > programming languages, etc. > > As someone who holds a MS in Information & Systems Engineering (yet earned > this degree after I started working in libraries), I find it frustrating to > be fully qualified for positions aside from a specific library degree. When > recruiters reach out for my assistance in finding applicants, I immediately > point out the instances when a library degree is being specifically > required, and I encourage them to change this. > > Cheers, > Tim > > Tim McGeary > > Associate University Librarian for Digital Strategies and Technology > > Duke University Libraries > > tim.mcge...@duke.edu > > > Schedule a meeting with Tim: > > > https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/bookwith...@prodduke.onmicrosoft.com/bookings/ > > > > ________________________________ > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> on behalf of Hammer, > Erich F <er...@albany.edu> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2023 9:20 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Will, > > I am the "Head of Systems" here, and I don't think I would have been > considered for the job without my MLIS. I had 20 years experience in IT > (during which I worked through the degree) before being hired, and my > supervisor and team recognized that I had no actual Library experience. > They were willing to guide me because of my technical abilities, but the > first year was completely overwhelming. The complexity and lingo had my > brain struggling to comprehend how it all fit together. I believe I'm > doing OK at the job now, but I have to give enormous credit to my > incredible and dedicated employees and also recognize that the pandemic > shutdown -- when I was the only person in the building for several months > -- afforded me the opportunity to catch up and resolve problems that > couldn't be managed in short, 15 minute segments between meetings and other > crises. > > What I'm saying is that I honestly don't think the courses I took for my > degree did all that much to prepare me for this job. What it may have done > though is tell the hiring committee that I was/am interested in the > concepts and philosophies of libraries and information science and am > willing to continue learning. > > Maybe the MLIS degree should be an alternative to x years of library > experience (along with demonstrated technical skills). > > Erich > > > > On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 18:24, Will Martin eloquently inscribed: > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. The > > job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting > > the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that removing the > > library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In past we've had > > difficulty getting candidates who had both the library degree and the > > requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > one, do > > you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you > > don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either > > way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:32:22 +0000 > From: Chanel Wheeler <chanel.whee...@yavapaiaz.gov> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I'm a Systems Librarian with an MLS for a multi-type consortium including > academics. One of the things I'm responsible for is ILS data integrity > which would be very difficult without the specialized knowledge I have. > Having an MLS has also allowed me to use the correct terminology with the > libraries resulting in them having more trust in me. In fact, I graphically > witnessed this went I went to lunch early on with a bunch of folks from one > of the academics. They thought I was just some IT person. When they found > out I had an MLS, their attitude completely changed and I could tell I had > been given more status. > > I would also say that it's better to hire someone with the eagerness to > learn than to expect them to have all technical knowledge already. I had > never administered an ILS when I got this job. Sure, it was slow going the > first few months but I picked it all up. And now I'm eagerly looking for to > changing ILSes next year. Something new to learn! > > chanel > -- > Chanel Wheeler > COSUGI 2023 Conference Chair (April 25-27) > Systems Librarian > Yavapai Library Network > 1971 Commerce Center Circle, > Suite A > Prescott, AZ 86301 > > Phone: (928) 442-5741 > chanel.whee...@yavapaiaz.gov > Open a help desk ticket > Book a meeting > > > > Register by April 25! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > Will > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 4:25 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > All, > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position instead. > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > Will Martin > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services Chester Fritz Library > University of North Dakota he/his/him > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:33:38 -0500 > From: Nicole Scalessa <nscale...@vassar.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > For a technical position like that I would state an MLIS degree or > equivalent experience. There is a lot to be said for hands-on library > experience regardless of the actual degree you have. I have been working in > libraries for 25 years and opted to get an MBA in IT management instead of > an MLIS. After having worked in libraries for about 20 years already that > was the degree that would provide the most career opportunities. I had > worked in every area from library assistant to reference to cataloging > while all along the way being taught by brilliant librarians how to do the > work. I was also simultaneously managing the website and IT > responsibilities because I had a knack for it. Now I am in my dream job at > another institution. > > Nicole > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 9:21 AM Hammer, Erich F <er...@albany.edu> wrote: > > > Will, > > > > I am the "Head of Systems" here, and I don't think I would have been > > considered for the job without my MLIS. I had 20 years experience in IT > > (during which I worked through the degree) before being hired, and my > > supervisor and team recognized that I had no actual Library experience. > > They were willing to guide me because of my technical abilities, but the > > first year was completely overwhelming. The complexity and lingo had my > > brain struggling to comprehend how it all fit together. I believe I'm > > doing OK at the job now, but I have to give enormous credit to my > > incredible and dedicated employees and also recognize that the pandemic > > shutdown -- when I was the only person in the building for several months > > -- afforded me the opportunity to catch up and resolve problems that > > couldn't be managed in short, 15 minute segments between meetings and > other > > crises. > > > > What I'm saying is that I honestly don't think the courses I took for my > > degree did all that much to prepare me for this job. What it may have > done > > though is tell the hiring committee that I was/am interested in the > > concepts and philosophies of libraries and information science and am > > willing to continue learning. > > > > Maybe the MLIS degree should be an alternative to x years of library > > experience (along with demonstrated technical skills). > > > > Erich > > > > > > > > On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 18:24, Will Martin eloquently > inscribed: > > > > > All, > > > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing > the > > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > > instead. The > > > job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > troubleshooting > > > the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that removing the > > > library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In past we've > had > > > difficulty getting candidates who had both the library degree and the > > > requisite technical proficiency. > > > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your > systems > > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > > one, do > > > you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > If > > you > > > don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > > Either > > > way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > > > Will Martin > > > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > > Chester Fritz Library > > > University of North Dakota > > > he/his/him > > > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > -- > > Nicole H. Scalessa > > Head of Digital Scholarship and Technology Services > > (845) 437-5219 <+18454375219> > > she, her, hers > > nscale...@vassar.edu > > > > Digital Scholarship Services Collaboration > <https://dissco.vassarspaces.net/> > > (DiSSCo) Zoom <https://vassar.zoom.us/j/2989322219> Office Hours Mondays > 2-3PM > > > My working day may not be your working day. Please don’t feel obliged to > reply to this e-mail outside of your normal working hours. > [image: Vassar] <https://www.vassar.edu/> [image: Vassar-Libraries] > <https://library.vassar.edu/>[image: Twitter] > < > https://twitter.com/Vassar?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor > > > [image: Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/vassarcollege> [image: > Instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/vassarcollege> [image: LinkedIn] > <https://www.linkedin.com/school/vassar-college/> [image: YouTube] > <https://www.youtube.com/user/Vassar> [image: TikTok] > <https://www.tiktok.com/@vassar_college?lang=en> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:34:57 -0500 > From: katherine.dei...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I will add to this that I am a System Librarian and do NOT have an MLIS. I > started in libraries as a web applications specialist and eventually moved > on to a librarian role (accessibility librarian) and am now a systems > librarian. I have taken some MLIS courses and would like to eventually > finish the degree, but I'm a nerd. > > I'm a quintessential example of an exception to the MLIS. I have a PhD in > computer science. While that would normally be an indicator that I cannot > do anything in terms of systems maintenance, my area of work was in > educational technology, human-computer interaction, and accessibility with > a focus on reading and literacy. I've made a point of picking up library > technobabble and knowledge in my jobs over the years. > > This is something to consider. Equivalent experience is an option that can > let in other candidates. > > Kate Deibel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Cindy > Bowen > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2023 8:27 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Kate's questions are definitely good ones, and Eric's perspective seems > like the complement to mine--I'm a Systems Librarian with an MLIS, and my > work (so far!) has been mostly focused on Alma-side config and improving > the ways our metadata (usually MARC, but also some Dublin Core) is showing > up in Primo VE. My cataloging course in grad school has certainly helped, > but so has my previous experience, plus a fair bit of googling and > inquiries on listservs! I also have colleagues who are devoted to the > server/API/coding areas, so certain problems pass out of my realm and into > theirs. > > Since you said you've had difficulty in the past with getting candidates, > maybe listing the degree as preferred rather than required would increase > your odds of a favorable candidate? That seems like it might improve the > candidate pool, at least, and during the hiring process you'll be able to > decide who best suits your library needs whether they have a degree or not. > ~Cindy > > Cindy Bowen > Systems Librarian > Georgetown University > cindy.bo...@georgetown.edu > she/her/hers > @calimae > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 6:54 PM Eric Phetteplace <phett...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Will, > > > > As a Systems Librarian myself, *a lot* of what I do doesn't require an > > MLIS. Web dev, dev ops, data munging, API integration between systems, > etc. > > The only thing that gives me pause is that you've stated the position > > will work primarily with your ILS, which is one area where a library > > background is really helpful. You are not going to find many folks > > without a degree who know what MARC is, or are familiar with the > intricacies of an ILS. > > Maybe that isn't an issue, my honest answer to your question is "I > > don't know", but it'd make me a little worried. People can, of course, > > pick up this knowledge over time, so maybe a related question is how > > much of a learning curve you're willing to accept. > > > > Best, > > Eric > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 3:32 PM <katherine.dei...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Two questions: > > > > > > 1. Are there benefits or advancement differences between a librarian > > > and technical position at your institution? > > > > > > 2. Is the MLIS requirement strict or do you consider also > > > equivalence > > such > > > as experience plus technical degrees? > > > > > > Kate Deibel > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of > > > Martin, Will > > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 6:25 PM > > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > > > > > All, > > > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing > > > the requirement for a library degree, making it a technician > > > position > > instead. > > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is > > > that removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting > > > easier. In past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both > > > the library degree > > and > > > the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your > > > systems person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do > > > require one, do you find you have to do extensive technical training > > > with new hires? If you don't, do you wind up having to train people > > > on library-related stuff? > > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > > > Will Martin > > > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services Chester Fritz > > > Library University of North Dakota he/his/him > > > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:36:16 -0500 > From: Guy Dobson <gdob...@drew.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I would rather hire a tech savvy librarian than vice versa. > > *Guy Dobson* > Director of Technical Services > Systems Librarian > Drew University Library > < > http://www.drew.edu/library?utm_source=FIL_Email_Footer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FIL%2BEmail%2BFooter > > > > 36 Madison Ave, Madison, NJ 07940 > (973) 408-3207 > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 9:34 AM Nicole Scalessa <nscale...@vassar.edu> > wrote: > > > For a technical position like that I would state an MLIS degree or > > equivalent experience. There is a lot to be said for hands-on library > > experience regardless of the actual degree you have. I have been working > in > > libraries for 25 years and opted to get an MBA in IT management instead > of > > an MLIS. After having worked in libraries for about 20 years already that > > was the degree that would provide the most career opportunities. I had > > worked in every area from library assistant to reference to cataloging > > while all along the way being taught by brilliant librarians how to do > the > > work. I was also simultaneously managing the website and IT > > responsibilities because I had a knack for it. Now I am in my dream job > at > > another institution. > > > > Nicole > > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 9:21 AM Hammer, Erich F <er...@albany.edu> > wrote: > > > > > Will, > > > > > > I am the "Head of Systems" here, and I don't think I would have been > > > considered for the job without my MLIS. I had 20 years experience in > IT > > > (during which I worked through the degree) before being hired, and my > > > supervisor and team recognized that I had no actual Library experience. > > > They were willing to guide me because of my technical abilities, but > the > > > first year was completely overwhelming. The complexity and lingo had my > > > brain struggling to comprehend how it all fit together. I believe I'm > > > doing OK at the job now, but I have to give enormous credit to my > > > incredible and dedicated employees and also recognize that the pandemic > > > shutdown -- when I was the only person in the building for several > months > > > -- afforded me the opportunity to catch up and resolve problems that > > > couldn't be managed in short, 15 minute segments between meetings and > > other > > > crises. > > > > > > What I'm saying is that I honestly don't think the courses I took for > my > > > degree did all that much to prepare me for this job. What it may have > > done > > > though is tell the hiring committee that I was/am interested in the > > > concepts and philosophies of libraries and information science and am > > > willing to continue learning. > > > > > > Maybe the MLIS degree should be an alternative to x years of library > > > experience (along with demonstrated technical skills). > > > > > > Erich > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 18:24, Will Martin eloquently > > inscribed: > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing > > the > > > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > > > instead. The > > > > job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > > troubleshooting > > > > the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that removing > the > > > > library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In past we've > > had > > > > difficulty getting candidates who had both the library degree and the > > > > requisite technical proficiency. > > > > > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your > > systems > > > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > > > one, do > > > > you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > > If > > > you > > > > don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > stuff? > > > Either > > > > way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > > > > > Will Martin > > > > > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > > > Chester Fritz Library > > > > University of North Dakota > > > > he/his/him > > > > > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Nicole H. Scalessa > > > > Head of Digital Scholarship and Technology Services > > > > (845) 437-5219 <+18454375219> > > > > she, her, hers > > > > nscale...@vassar.edu > > > > > > > > Digital Scholarship Services Collaboration > > <https://dissco.vassarspaces.net/> > > > > (DiSSCo) Zoom <https://vassar.zoom.us/j/2989322219> Office Hours Mondays > > 2-3PM > > > > > > My working day may not be your working day. Please don’t feel obliged to > > reply to this e-mail outside of your normal working hours. > > [image: Vassar] <https://www.vassar.edu/> [image: Vassar-Libraries] > > <https://library.vassar.edu/>[image: Twitter] > > < > > > https://twitter.com/Vassar?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor > > > > > [image: Facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/vassarcollege> [image: > > Instagram] <https://www.instagram.com/vassarcollege> [image: LinkedIn] > > <https://www.linkedin.com/school/vassar-college/> [image: YouTube] > > <https://www.youtube.com/user/Vassar> [image: TikTok] > > <https://www.tiktok.com/@vassar_college?lang=en> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:40:27 +0000 > From: Tim McGeary <tim.mcge...@duke.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > When they found out I had an MLS, their attitude completely changed and I > could tell I had been given more status. > This continues to be a huge problem in libraries and flies in the face of > the values of diversity and inclusion many / most libraries claim to hold. > > Tim > > > ________________________________ > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> on behalf of Chanel > Wheeler <chanel.whee...@yavapaiaz.gov> > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2023 9:32 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I'm a Systems Librarian with an MLS for a multi-type consortium including > academics. One of the things I'm responsible for is ILS data integrity > which would be very difficult without the specialized knowledge I have. > Having an MLS has also allowed me to use the correct terminology with the > libraries resulting in them having more trust in me. In fact, I graphically > witnessed this went I went to lunch early on with a bunch of folks from one > of the academics. They thought I was just some IT person. When they found > out I had an MLS, their attitude completely changed and I could tell I had > been given more status. > > I would also say that it's better to hire someone with the eagerness to > learn than to expect them to have all technical knowledge already. I had > never administered an ILS when I got this job. Sure, it was slow going the > first few months but I picked it all up. And now I'm eagerly looking for to > changing ILSes next year. Something new to learn! > > chanel > -- > Chanel Wheeler > COSUGI 2023 Conference Chair (April 25-27) > Systems Librarian > Yavapai Library Network > 1971 Commerce Center Circle, > Suite A > Prescott, AZ 86301 > > Phone: (928) 442-5741 > chanel.whee...@yavapaiaz.gov > Open a help desk ticket > Book a meeting > > > > Register by April 25! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > Will > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 4:25 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > All, > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position instead. > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > Will Martin > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services Chester Fritz Library > University of North Dakota he/his/him > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:40:59 +0000 > From: Lynda Howell <lynda.how...@uvm.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Our experience has been that Librarian payscales and expectations are > completely different from IT payscales/expectations. We had to convert a > position to a librarian position and drop a lot of the technical > requirements in order to get applicants willing to take the job. > > Lynda. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > Will > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 6:25 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > All, > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position instead. > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > Will Martin > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > Chester Fritz Library > University of North Dakota > he/his/him > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:59:06 -0500 > From: Geoffrey Spear <geoffsp...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I don't believe my institution has a single "Systems Librarian" in any of > our 3 library systems at the moment. The smallest of the systems does have > a cataloging librarian who handles the majority of their IT stuff. In the > other 2 larger library systems the ILS integration and other generally > "library systems" stuff is done by staff without advanced degrees, most of > whom have decades of experience with Voyager and were part of the migration > to Alma. I wouldn't necessarily want to replace any of us with a random IT > person with no exposure to libraries, but I also don't think formal library > school training is required to gain the skills we've needed. > > On the other hand, in a university setting there may be good political > reasons for a library to want to have more faculty librarian positions, and > it's a hard sell to convince an institution that's selling training for > advanced degrees as their core business that maybe their advanced degrees > aren't really necessary for these faculty positions. > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 9:41 AM Lynda Howell <lynda.how...@uvm.edu> wrote: > > > Our experience has been that Librarian payscales and expectations are > > completely different from IT payscales/expectations. We had to convert a > > position to a librarian position and drop a lot of the technical > > requirements in order to get applicants willing to take the job. > > > > Lynda. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > > Will > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 6:25 PM > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > If > > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > stuff? > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:00:59 +0000 > From: "Wu, Jingjing" <jingjing...@ttu.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Everyone needs to keep learning, either new technologies or knowledge > about libraries. I wonder how many people with technology backgrounds but > no library experience will apply for a "Systems Librarian" position. > > Jingjing Wu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > Will > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 5:25 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > This email originated outside TTU. Please exercise caution< > https://askit.ttu.edu/phishing>! > > > All, > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position instead. > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? If > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related stuff? > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > Will Martin > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services Chester Fritz Library > University of North Dakota he/his/him > > 701.777.4638 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:06:22 -0500 > From: Diane Hillmann <metadata.ma...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I don't think it should be an either/or. I was a systems librarian way > before such beasts were defined, much less recruited. I was trained as a > bibliographic searcher supporting bibliographers ordering books (no longer > do those folks exist, really) and transitioned to a cataloger some years > later), so I always knew bib data really well. I started my technical > learning, in charge of loading tapes into a NOTIS system and then > supervising authorities work. I think some kind of library certification > (maybe MLS or equivalent) plus experience in cataloging or acquisitions (or > whatever they're called these days) should be sufficient. It's about the > data, folks--the technical stuff is much easier to find in the wild and can > effectively be teamed with a librarian that knows the data. > > Diane Hillmann > Librarian (retired, but still sentient) > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 9:41 AM Lynda Howell <lynda.how...@uvm.edu> wrote: > > > Our experience has been that Librarian payscales and expectations are > > completely different from IT payscales/expectations. We had to convert a > > position to a librarian position and drop a lot of the technical > > requirements in order to get applicants willing to take the job. > > > > Lynda. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Code for Libraries <CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG> On Behalf Of Martin, > > Will > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 6:25 PM > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > If > > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > stuff? > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 07:14:16 -0800 > From: Kyle Banerjee <kyle.baner...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Delivering good service is all about understanding pain and joy points -- > which those without library experience won't have. > > My consistent observation both working in libraries and as a vendor rep > with systems personnel with all kinds of institutions is that library > experience is very important for delivering what is needed. > > When people don't understand what the real task at hand is or the context > of communications, they can't see opportunities and problems that are > totally obvious, and you get a dynamic much like this video where someone > makes a sandwich based on written instructions > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct-lOOUqmyY Everything takes much longer, > and the results are not anywhere near as good. > > Exposure to the work is important, and I think it can be gained without a > degree even if that is helpful. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:39:08 -0500 > From: Jesse Martinez <jesse.marti...@bc.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > We've recently made some of our library systems jobs MLS optional. In one > particular case only the job title differs between someone with and without > an MLS degree. Here's a snippet from a recent job posting > <https://jobs.code4lib.org/jobs/54001-systems-librarian>: > > Hiring range > > We’re looking to make the right addition to our team. Salary is > > commensurate with your experience implementing Library systems in a > > Linux/Unix environment. Regardless of your experience level, we’re > > committed to supporting your growth in this role. > > > > - Less than 3 years: Associate Systems Librarian - $59,550 - $74,450 > > > > > > - 3-5 years: Systems Librarian - $69,100 - $86,350 > > > > > > - 5 or more years: Senior Systems Librarian - $78,100 - $97,650 > > > > Candidates without the MLS degree will have Systems Administrator for > > title. > > > We've also noticed that since we've made some systems jobs MLS optional > (and changing the overall language of the job posting to encourage folks > with overlapping/equivalent technical skills to apply) we've been able to > recruit people from more diverse, underrepresented, and nontraditional > backgrounds. There's definitely an expectation of on-the-job training since > we're casting a wide net, but we've broadened our focus to candidates that > have a good technical aptitude, an affinity to learn, and complementary > skills that can be applied to this position. Overall, I'd say it's been a > positive experience! > > Jesse > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Martin, Will <william.d.mar...@und.edu> > wrote: > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is that > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require one, > > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > If > > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > stuff? > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > -- > Jesse Martinez > Senior Library Applications Developer > O'Neill Library, Boston College > jesse.marti...@bc.edu > 617-552-2509 > he/him/his > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:21:30 -0500 > From: Erin Nettifee <enetti...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I’ll add that an MLS does not guarantee a particular level or understanding > of all the aspects of library work. A lot depends on the individual > program, what classes are offered, what internships were or weren’t > required, things like that. I made it through a respected program without > taking a cataloging-focused class, for example. I got exposure to some of > the theory in other courses, but I knew I didn’t want to become a cataloger > and other classes were more interesting to me. > > If this is the first position where you’re removing the requirement, I > would encourage you to spend time with the non-IT people this position > would be working with to help them understand why the change was made and > so they don’t have misaligned expectations of whoever you do hire. It’s the > right change to make in my opinion, but you will have more legwork to do to > help the new person be successful. > > Cheers, > Erin > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 10:40 AM Jesse Martinez < > 000000f268fdf604-dmarc-requ...@lists.clir.org> wrote: > > > We've recently made some of our library systems jobs MLS optional. In one > > particular case only the job title differs between someone with and > without > > an MLS degree. Here's a snippet from a recent job posting > > <https://jobs.code4lib.org/jobs/54001-systems-librarian>: > > > > Hiring range > > > We’re looking to make the right addition to our team. Salary is > > > commensurate with your experience implementing Library systems in a > > > Linux/Unix environment. Regardless of your experience level, we’re > > > committed to supporting your growth in this role. > > > > > > - Less than 3 years: Associate Systems Librarian - $59,550 - $74,450 > > > > > > > > > - 3-5 years: Systems Librarian - $69,100 - $86,350 > > > > > > > > > - 5 or more years: Senior Systems Librarian - $78,100 - $97,650 > > > > > > Candidates without the MLS degree will have Systems Administrator for > > > title. > > > > > > We've also noticed that since we've made some systems jobs MLS optional > > (and changing the overall language of the job posting to encourage folks > > with overlapping/equivalent technical skills to apply) we've been able to > > recruit people from more diverse, underrepresented, and nontraditional > > backgrounds. There's definitely an expectation of on-the-job training > since > > we're casting a wide net, but we've broadened our focus to candidates > that > > have a good technical aptitude, an affinity to learn, and complementary > > skills that can be applied to this position. Overall, I'd say it's been a > > positive experience! > > > > Jesse > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Martin, Will <william.d.mar...@und.edu> > > wrote: > > > > > All, > > > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and removing > the > > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > > instead. > > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is > that > > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting easier. In > > > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the library > > > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your > systems > > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > one, > > > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new hires? > > If > > > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > > stuff? > > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > > > Will Martin > > > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > > Chester Fritz Library > > > University of North Dakota > > > he/his/him > > > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jesse Martinez > > Senior Library Applications Developer > > O'Neill Library, Boston College > > jesse.marti...@bc.edu > > 617-552-2509 > > he/him/his > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:34:48 -0500 > From: Ima Oduok <ima.od...@austin.utexas.edu> > Subject: Re: Scanning a document with translation software > > Hi Charles, > > I was a freelance translator and a translation project manager for several > years and can tell you there is definitely no app or software that can do > what the patron wants. Not well, anyways. > > Several apps do scan documents to create PDFs from camera images (Adobe > has one). But if the patron wants to have the file translated, he will have > to OCR it, and throw the text into a machine translation program such as > Google Translate. The translation output will undoubtedly be a mess, > especially for a complex legal document. If the patron goes that route, I > would recommend he hire a translator to edit the machine translation, > especially if the translation is intended for official/legal use. > > Let me know if you need any more information about translation or finding > a freelance translator for Spanish>English. > > Best, > Ima > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 17:21:08 +0000 > From: "P.L. Stiles" <psti...@nc.rr.com> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Well said. Most librarians have the requisite intelligence to learn > the technical aspects, and it is frustrating for librarians who do > most everything else, such as web work, data management, and data > organization to not be considered for systems librarian positions when > more could be accomplished by having them partner with IT department > for systems training and to problem solve. After all, most legacy > systems librarians that built it did not have IT degrees, they knew > the data and utilized database and MARC record knowledge to start and > built it out as needed. Also, it is not something that can be taught > until you are working with the system in play. > > Librarians deserve the opportunity to become system librarians, > especially when candidates are in short supply. > > -----------------------------------------From: "Diane Hillmann" > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > Cc: > Sent: Friday February 17 2023 10:07:38AM > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > I don't think it should be an either/or. I was a systems librarian > way > before such beasts were defined, much less recruited. I was trained > as a > bibliographic searcher supporting bibliographers ordering books (no > longer > do those folks exist, really) and transitioned to a cataloger some > years > later), so I always knew bib data really well. I started my technical > learning, in charge of loading tapes into a NOTIS system and then > supervising authorities work. I think some kind of library > certification > (maybe MLS or equivalent) plus experience in cataloging or > acquisitions (or > whatever they're called these days) should be sufficient. It's about > the > data, folks--the technical stuff is much easier to find in the wild > and can > effectively be teamed with a librarian that knows the data. > > Diane Hillmann > Librarian (retired, but still sentient) > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 9:41 AM Lynda Howell wrote: > > > Our experience has been that Librarian payscales and expectations > are > > completely different from IT payscales/expectations. We had to > convert a > > position to a librarian position and drop a lot of the technical > > requirements in order to get applicants willing to take the job. > > > > Lynda. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Code for Libraries On Behalf Of Martin, > > Will > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 6:25 PM > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > > > All, > > > > We're considering taking our Systems Librarian position and > removing the > > requirement for a library degree, making it a technician position > instead. > > The job's primary focus is in working with Alma configuration and > > troubleshooting the perennial off-campus access issues. The hope is > that > > removing the library degree requirement will make recruiting > easier. In > > past we've had difficulty getting candidates who had both the > library > > degree and the requisite technical proficiency. > > > > I am curious to hear from other universities: do you require your > systems > > person to hold a library degree? Why or why not? If you do require > one, > > do you find you have to do extensive technical training with new > hires? If > > you don't, do you wind up having to train people on library-related > stuff? > > Either way, how has your approach worked out? > > > > Will Martin > > > > Head of Digital Initiatives, Systems and Services > > Chester Fritz Library > > University of North Dakota > > he/his/him > > > > 701.777.4638 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:01:44 -0500 > From: Joe Hourclé <onei...@annoying.org> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > > > > On Feb 17, 2023, at 10:01 AM, Wu, Jingjing <jingjing...@ttu.edu> wrote: > > > > Everyone needs to keep learning, either new technologies or knowledge > about libraries. I wonder how many people with technology backgrounds but > no library experience will apply for a "Systems Librarian" position. > > > I suspect that it won’t be that many unless they find it via a keyword > search, as most IT people wouldn’t know what a ‘systems librarian’ is. > > But all of this discussion makes me think-- is there a need for some sort > of primer on what a systems librarian should know? > > Either coming from the librarian side of things, or from the IT side. > > I suspect that much like ‘programmer’ or ‘sysadmin’, there’s a rather wide > range of what skills and knowledge are actually required. The smaller the > shop, the more likely that you’re going to need someone who’s a > Jack-of-All-Trades instead of a specialist in ILSes. > > I would think it might be worth finding / writing some introductory > information on ILSes, FRBR, MARC, and whatever else those who actually work > in libraries think would be useful (LCSH? DDC? SRU? CQL? I’ve never > worked in a library) > > Is this something that we could partner with the Carpentry folks for? > > And as had been mentioned already, terminology can be a huge problem. I > was working in science data archives, and even between science disciplines > we had incompatible use of terms. Add in the library/archives folks and > the compsci/HPC folks and it’s general chaos to try to have conversations. > > A decade ago, I put together a glossary of problematic terms, either > defining them in a way that everyone could agree to, or flagging the ones > that will lead to misunderstanding: > > http://virtualsolar.org/vocab > > Unfortunately, I got bogged down in other projects and laid off (then > brought back as an independent consultant) without ever formally publishing > it. > > I don’t know if there’s would be a good way to do this virtually… I > basically wrote down every term that I thought was weird (didn’t know it, > seemed to be used differently than I was used to), then presented a poster > at a meeting, and let people add terms and definitions. After a couple of > years of this, we seemed to reach an equilibrium. > > We could do part of it with shared online documents, but there was a lot > of interviewing people to tease out exactly what they thought was wrong > with my definitions. > > -Joe > > (Civil Engineering undergrad, but worked in IT during the early days of > ‘the web’, then got roped into working as a programmer/sysadmin/dba for a > science data archive, and got an Information Mgmt degree (but took library > classification type stuff for my electives) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 23:14:11 +0000 > From: "Martin, Will" <william.d.mar...@und.edu> > Subject: Re: Systems - to librarian or not to librarian? > > Wow, great responses. Thanks to everyone who replied! Sorry it took me > all day to get to writing this response -- a series of meetings got in the > way. > > I'm going to go through and answer questions people asked in one lump > rather than replying individually over and over. > > Kate Deibel asked a couple of questions: > > > 1. Are there benefits or advancement differences between a librarian and > technical position at your institution? > > You're speaking of things like Librarian I, II and III, effectively a sort > of promotion within your existing job? We don't have defined advancement > tracks for librarians or technicians. I think we probably should, but > those were eliminated some time in the '90s, for reasons that are unclear > to me. I should also note that librarians are not eligible for tenure at > UND. Thus, if you want job advancement, you have to take a new job. > > As for benefits, they're generally pretty good and the same for both > tracks. The institution covers 100% of medical insurance premiums (except > dental and vision, which are add-ons), a generous retirement plan through > TIAA-CREF, UND matching contributions to retirement up to 15% of your > salary, 3 free classes per year for employees, half-price tuition for > immediate family members. Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. > > At the same time, our HR department has a track record of consistently > lowballing the salaries for, well, everything. I mean yeah, the cost of > living is low in Grand Forks compared to major urban centers. But the city > is small, remote, cold, and flat. Very few people have "move to Grand > Forks, North Dakota" on their bucket list. Low salaries plus undesirable > location = difficult recruitment. No amount of good benefits is going to > fix that when most people look at the salary and the location and > immediately decide not to apply. > > The last time we advertised this job, we got five applicants. Two were > totally unqualified, two washed out during interviews, and the last one > took a job elsewhere. So we ran a new search and got four applicants. Two > were unqualified. The other two were reasonable candidates, and one took > the job -- but is moving on to warmer pastures a year and a half later. > > Recruiting for general tech positions isn't any easier. I was on a search > committee for a general, ground level tech support person. The search > failed four times running before we finally got someone who took the job on > the fifth search. > > > 2. Is the MLIS requirement strict or do you consider also equivalence > such as experience plus technical degrees? > > To date, the requirement has been strict: you must have a Master's degree > from an ALA-accredited program. > > At least we got rid of the phrasing about "MLS" -- in past we had failed > recruitments because HR threw out qualified candidates whose degree acronym > didn't match the one in the job advert. We in library land know that > library schools have adopted at least nine different acronyms for their > degrees, but the HR department didn't. > > Eric Phetteplace asked: > > > ... how much of a learning curve [are you] willing to accept? > > It's hard to say. Chances are good that no matter who we hire they'll have > a learning curve to climb; it's just a matter of which one. Last time, we > got a good hire who had two years' experience with Alma, but knew little to > nothing about Linux, EZ Proxy, PHP, APIs and so on. So they were great at > the Alma stuff, but required a whole lot of training for the other bits. > If we take the library degree requirement off, we may well reverse that, > winding up with a good techy who has no familiarity with Alma. > > Jingjing Wu commented: > > > I wonder how many people with technology backgrounds but no > > library experience will apply for a "Systems Librarian" position. > > If we removed the library degree requirement, then we would naturally > change the title as well. Probably to "Systems Administrator" or similar. > > I've found everyone's feedback very useful. I'm going to discuss it with > my boss -- it's her decision, ultimately. And there may be other factors, > like the HR department's procedures. I doubt the HR department would let us > post a job with two different titles depending on which qualifications were > possessed by the successful candidate, for instance. We can ask. But I > have this sneaking suspicion that there's a Holy Chart Of Job Titles Into > Which All Candidates Will Fit. > > Thank you all very much! > > Will Martin > > ------------------------------ > > End of CODE4LIB Digest - 16 Feb 2023 to 17 Feb 2023 (#2023-39) > ************************************************************** >
