Carol, I agree generally about not feeding the trolls, but if the trolls
are making this an unpleasant place, then we need to speak out -- not by
feeding them, but by making it clear that such messages make c4l an
unfriendly place. We still don't know how to go about that at this
point, and I second Mita that we need to decide if the
"anti-discrimination policy" (because I do think it's as much about
anti-discrimination as anti-harassment) is done or not. Then we need to
have the discussion about: what does it mean to implement the policy?"
I've felt very uncomfortable about the strong reactions on this list
against women taking an action that they wish to take, especially
because some responses have tended to be unnecessarily vituperative. I
think it is general uneasiness with our having broken the silence as
women, thus "forcing" the community to address what is a difficult
issue. I think we all wish that it wasn't an issue, and we're in the
phase of "blame the messenger." What is MOST important is that this
backlash doesn't make more women uneasy here. So we need to get through
this before damage is done. I wish I had a concrete suggestion/answer,
but all I can think of at the moment is that we must be very supportive
of the community, men and women and "others," because it has great value
for us.
kc
On 12/8/12 6:58 AM, Carol Bean wrote:
May I suggest some comments don't need a response because (1) they are intended
facetiously and/or (2) they are trolling. In either case, it's best to take
the high ground and let them pass into oblivion, especially in highly charged
discussions.
Carol
On Dec 8, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Mita Williams wrote:
This is the framing that I resonate with as well.
I really appreciate all the conversations as of late on code4lib and I find
that the poll on gender and community was incredibly illuminating. I'm
currently reading 'Unlocking the clubhouse' and there are large swaths
of relevant passages that apply that have to with the setting of model
behaviour in a field that might explain the high numbers who don't feel the
community that others do (An aside: when you are tempted to tell someone
else what to *feel* please re-consider).
One aspect of community is the sense of shared experience. If you are a
librarian, you don't have to explain the work that you do at in the same
way you have to do when you among non-librarians. That's part of the joy of
a community. In code4lib you can joke about text editors or what have you,
knowing most folks will get and maybe even laugh at the joke. Again, I want
to say that I appreciate the efforts of those who are taking the time to
explain where women's experiences are not so shared with men. I've seen
what I think is genuine reflection and re-thinking and that gladdens the
heart. That being said, comments like this
http://serials.infomotions.com/code4lib/archive/2012/201212/3988.htm<http://serials.infomotions.com/code4lib/archive/2012/201212/3988.html>l
feel
like trolling to me and the lack of response to such comments leaves me
disappointed. Having to constantly explains one's self doesn't lend to a
sense of community.
All that being said, I would hate the code4lib community to lose momentum
on the matter of the anti-harassment policy. Sadly, it is much needed.
M
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Bess Sadler <bess.sad...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 7, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Joshua Gomez <jngo...@gwu.edu> wrote:
Others have mentioned they fear that a subgroup will only decrease the
diversity within code4lib by pulling women away from it and into the new
group. This was my initial concern as well, but when I look at other
kinds
of women in tech groups I realize that they don't decrease women's
participation in mainstream groups. In fact they help boost women's
profiles and skill sets, thus increasing their likelihood of
participating
in mainstream groups.
Well said, Joshua. Any separate women in technology groups I've been
involved with (e.g., devchix, grrlswithmodems back in the day) have been
what you describe here. These groups are supplementary, and create a place
to get support if one needs help navigating mainstream (and yes,
male-dominated) communities.
Bess
--
Karen Coyle
kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet
