On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Alex Armstrong <aarmstr...@acg.edu> wrote:
> @Cindi: In my defense, I was being rhetorical as to why there's no plugin > system. I wasn't trying to second-guess how you develop your products. > Though I'm glad you're considering allowing more sophisticated > customization for LibGuides. Navigation in particular is a thorny issue. > No worries! I hope my response didn't come off as reactionary. We are happy to answer questions, even rhetorical ones. ;) (I hear you, but we were like, yeah, why *doesn't* that exist? Let's *do* it!) As for Gist/Git, there are repos out there, 20-some of them. We would very much like to replace the Lounge with something else in the future, and while I think GitHub is too high a bar for most of our users, it could play a role in us sharing with you and vice-versa. > There's some simple stuff thatare worth documenting. For example, Josh > mentioned that: > > "The admin controls in LGseem to all be loaded dynamically via javascript, > which makes them both very > hard to customize and very easy to break. I have also noticed that > changingthe ID of certain HTML elements in your template can have the > unintended(and undocumented) effect of erasing particular admin features > from your > template." > > I've listed these IDs here: https://gist.github.com/alehandrof/ > 9f083aa03c287931d9f0#file-required-for-admin-html We actually had this on our list of things to add to the LibGuides documentation. So, thanks for that, Alex! :) I'll see that it gets added--you're not the first one to alert us to this issue (nor was @gollydamn). > Any ideas on where/how we can share things like this? I tried tweeting it > to my 6 followers. To my surprise, it was not widely reported on :p > We are happy to RT - just tag us @springshare. We also have a blog <http://blog.springshare.com>, and a web newsletter that goes out to every person with an account. I realize that this is us sharing rather than you sharing--if something else works, go for it, and if we can help, just ask. Keep being awesome, and know that we welcome your feedback. :) Thanks! -Cindi :) On 2014-09-25 23:48, Cindi Blyberg wrote: > OK, one more tidbit on this. I was chatting with Slaven, our CEO, and told > him of the chatter on the list and the idea of a community-developed, > curated set of plug-ins, along with templates, themes, etc., and he's > totally excited about this idea. He (and I!) would love it if you all > would chime in on this and other ideas on the Lounge so that we can figure > out how to make them happen. We're going to set up a group on the Lounge > for techie admins, but our Lounge admin is in the midst of moving so it > might take a day or two. > > Thanks for all this great feedback, everyone! We are listening, and want > to make these things happen. > > -cb > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Cindi Blyberg <cindi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Alex, >> >> That's a great question! I would surmise that a plug-in system and other >> advanced tech features don't exist yet for a couple of reasons. First, >> we're a small company. We have eight products and a small development >> team; right now the priority is getting out v2 apps. Second, we have more >> than 4500 LibGuides customers, and some have more than one site. The >> vast, >> vast majority of those folks use LibGuides out of the box, with a few >> color >> customizations that they accomplish with the UI (or a lot, as you've >> seen...). Some folks are advanced enough to figure out and alter the >> default CSS and put their customizations in the Custom JS/CSS field. Then >> there is this group. :) There are a few LibGuides admins who do >> customization at this group's level who aren't on this list (or are you? >> :) >> ). >> >> I'd also second the Lounge (springsharelounge.com) as a good group. >> There's an academic libraries group there, which is quite active. >> >> Cheers. >> >> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Alex Armstrong <aarmstr...@acg.edu> >> wrote: >> >> The web content workflow and governance issues that were brought up are >>> really important. I would love to discuss them at excruciating length. >>> But >>> content ownership conundrums and the frustrations of WYSIWYG editors are >>> broader issues that can be usefully taken up in other threads. >>> >>> I de-lurked here because I saw an opening to discuss LibGuides with other >>> people who have a stake in it, especially as a lightweight CMS. I think >>> Josh's description of its limitations was very good. His feature >>> propositions, including that of a curated plugin system, were even >>> better. >>> I have a question though: Why doesn't it exist already? >>> >>> LibGuides is limited, though the v2 API looks promising for client-side >>> stuff. We should be talking with Springshare about improving workflows >>> for >>> admins -- such as (an example I came across today) being able to upload >>> more than one image at a time. And, in the meantime, there's other stuff >>> we >>> can do now: community docs, templates, themes, best practices, etc. I've >>> been surprised by the lack of this material, considering how widely >>> LibGuides is implemented. >>> >>> Does anyone else find this stuff interesting? >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> On 09/25/2014 05:48 PM, Cindi Blyberg wrote: >>> >>> One more great guide to share - a literary journal from a k12 in >>>> Australia: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://home2.scotch.wa.edu.au/theraven_winter2014 >>>> >>>> For you LG admins out there - it's a series of RT content types that's >>>> governed by an external stylesheet. They have LibGuides CMS, and this >>>> private guide is in its own group. >>>> >>>> *back to lurking* >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Cindi Blyberg <cindi...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Jesse reminds me that I meant to point out that there is a "Paste from >>>> >>>>> Word" button in the RTE that will strip out all that microsoft >>>>> nonsense. >>>>> Not quite what you were asking for (suppressing tags from the RTE--I >>>>> passed >>>>> that suggestion on to the devs) but it's what we refer people to who >>>>> break >>>>> their formatting accidentally with a massive paste. There's also a >>>>> "Paste >>>>> as Plain Text" button that has a similar effect. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Jesse Martinez <jesse.marti...@bc.edu >>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I can commiserate! >>>>> >>>>>> The tactic we've used at our university was to use the data migration >>>>>> from >>>>>> LGv1 to LGv2 as a means to convene guide authors and rethink >>>>>> * the future overall layout of our guides (new side menu has been our >>>>>> design choice but complicates preexisting three- and four-column >>>>>> layouts); >>>>>> * their intended use (pastiche of related but independent boxes on the >>>>>> guide or something with a simple flow/concise content -- it's a >>>>>> philosophical discussion, for sure); >>>>>> * breakdown of content (when it is appropriate to have long detailed >>>>>> pages >>>>>> or break down into sub-pages, which have their own issues...); >>>>>> * the strict use of accessibility policies (must set up strict >>>>>> policies >>>>>> about funky colors & fonts, minimize use HTML tables, content column >>>>>> layout >>>>>> w.r.t. responsive design, etc.). >>>>>> >>>>>> I feel our internal conversations and meetings about rethinking >>>>>> LibGuides >>>>>> v2 with our staff have gone over well, and reiterating appropriate >>>>>> "best >>>>>> practices" or suggestions whenever I field a LibGuides question have >>>>>> birthed some improvements in guide construction. It's an ongoing >>>>>> battle, >>>>>> of >>>>>> course! >>>>>> >>>>>> There are some heavy-handed tactics in place here too. For instance >>>>>> we've >>>>>> hidden the Fonts button in the guide editor using CSS. >>>>>> >>>>>> span#cke_12 {display:none;} >>>>>> >>>>>> This doesn't stop custom html or copy/pasting Word content (ugh) from >>>>>> getting through, but it does allows us to say, "nope, we're not >>>>>> supporting >>>>>> Comic Sans!" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Joshua Welker <wel...@ucmo.edu> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I lol'ed several times reading your message. I feel the pain. Well, >>>>>> it >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>> nice to know I am not alone. You are right that this in particular is >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> organizational problem and not a LibGuides problem. But unfortunately >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> has been an organizational problem at both of the universities where >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've >>>>>> >>>>>> worked that use LibGuides, and it sounds like it is a problem at many >>>>>>> other libraries. I'm not sure what it is about LibGuides that brings >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> the most territorial and user-marginalizing aspects of the librarian >>>>>>> psyche. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone have any positive experience in dealing with this? I am >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> verge of just manually enforcing good standards even though it will >>>>>>> >>>>>>> create >>>>>> >>>>>> a lot of enmity. LibGuides CMS has a publishing workflow feature that >>>>>>> would force all guide edits to be approved by me so that I could >>>>>>> stamp >>>>>>> this stuff out each time it happens. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To enforce, or not to enforce, that is the question-- >>>>>>> Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of >>>>>>> outrageously poor usability, >>>>>>> Or to take arms against a sea of ugly guides, >>>>>>> And by forcing compliance with standards and best practices, end >>>>>>> them? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh Welker >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf >>>>>>> Of >>>>>>> Will Martin >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:34 AM >>>>>>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4. Admin controls are not very granular. With most aspects of >>>>>>> editing >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a guide, you either have the option of locking down styles and >>>>>>>> templates completely (and oh your colleagues will howl) or allowing >>>>>>>> everything (and oh your eyeballs will scream). Some of these things >>>>>>>> could very well be improved in the future, and some probably will >>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This! My librarians have successfully resisted every attempt to >>>>>>> impose >>>>>>> any kind of standardization. Visual guidelines? Nope. Content >>>>>>> guidelines? Nope. Standard system settings? Nope. Anything less >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> 100% free reign appears to be anathema to them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The result, predictably, is chaos. Our guides run the gamut. We >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> everything: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Giant walls of text that no one ever reads. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Lovingly crafted lists of obscure library sources that rarely (if >>>>>>> ever) bear any relation to what the patron is actually trying to do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - A thriving ecosystem of competing labels. Is it "Article Indexes", >>>>>>> "Article Databases", just plain "Databases", or something more >>>>>>> exotic? >>>>>>> Depends which apex predator rules this particular neck of the jungle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Green text on pink backgrounds with maroon borders. Other pages in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> same guide might go with different, equally eye-twisting color >>>>>>> schemes. >>>>>>> I'm not even sure how he's doing that without access to the style >>>>>>> sheet, >>>>>>> but he's probably taught himself just enough HTML to mangle things in >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> effort to use "friendly" colors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Some guides have three or even FOUR rows of tabs. With drop-down >>>>>>> submenus on most of them, naturally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - A few are nicely curated and easy to use, but they're in a distinct >>>>>>> minority. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've tried. I've pushed peer-reviewed usability studies at them. >>>>>>> I've >>>>>>> reported on conference sessions explaining exactly why all these >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> are bad. I've brought them studies of our own analytics. I've had >>>>>>> students sit down and get confused in front of them. Nothing has >>>>>>> gotten >>>>>>> through, and being the only web type at the library, I'm outnumbered. >>>>>>> Just the thought of it makes me supremely tired. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm sorry if this has digressed. LibGuides is not at fault, really. >>>>>>> It's an organizational problem. LibGuides just seems to be the flash >>>>>>> point for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jesse Martinez >>>>>> Web Services Librarian >>>>>> O'Neill Library, Boston College >>>>>> jesse.marti...@bc.edu >>>>>> 617-552-2509 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
