Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR

Wed, 11 Apr 2018 08:02:56 -0700

 
Interesting discussion.
 
It seems many are not aware of the reality of the European Union's extent and how RIR divided the world:
 
https://www.arin.net/vault/about_us/bot/bot2017_1005.html
"Merike Kaeo indicated that due to General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR), organizations are going 'dark' with their information because the fines are so high. The President provided more background on GDPR, and indicated ARIN was in good shape with regard to GDPR due to its service region."
 
https://www.nro.net/about-the-nro/list-of-country-codes-and-rirs-ordered-by-country-code/
Martinique is part of France and EU but is serviced by ARIN, not by RIPE and there are some more serviced at ARIN.
 
If what Mike and Owen are saying is correct, the RIR being outside of EU is not obliged to be in line with those new rules, but the members from France (La Reunion, Mayotte) are responsible under French/EU laws?

The few things I found in regards to GDPR was about exporting private data to outside of the European Union, does that mean those members will not be able to make use of the AFRINIC database unless they get confirmation that AFRINIC is compliant with that GDPR?
 
Will AFRINIC move those members and their information to the RIPE where they will be within the legislation of their own laws?
 
 
 
11.04.2018, 09:30, "Kris Seeburn" <seebur...@gmail.com>:
Mike
 
Réunion and Mayotte are the outermost region of the European Union and, as an overseas department of France, part of the Eurozone
 
 
 
On Apr 11, 2018, at 18:23, Mike Silber <silber.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
They are not Member States.
 
And Owen is not really that accurate in his interpretation. He mixes up enforcement (real nexus through operations) with some theoretical applicability which is poorly defined and has no practical _expression_ in the GDPR and will need national DPAs to provide teeth.
 
On 11 Apr 2018, at 16:19, Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
 
Owen,
 
Would the fact that AfriNIC serves  La Réunion and Mayotte not create such a nexus since both are formally part of the EU?
 
In the same way – there are various EU members served by ARIN?
 
 
Andrew
 
 
From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com] 
Sent: 11 April 2018 17:12
To: Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Mike Silber <silber.m...@gmail.com>; Abibu R. Ntahigiye <ab...@tznic.or.tz>; General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-disc...@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
 
Roughly translated:
               The ability of EU to inflict GDPR on those operators outside of EU is predicated on that operator
               having some business operation or presence within the EU which allows them to subject you to their
               jurisdiction. Determining that you have said presence requires a specific determination by the
               EU member state where said presence exists.
 
I’m pretty sure AfriNIC has no such nexus.
 
However, what is left out of Mike’s statement is the potential that any other country may have signed some
sort of treaty with the EU (or a member state) which subjects them to GDPR and/or grants additional
extraterritorial rights to the EU. Such is (unfortunately) the case with the US, for example.
 
Another key point is that EU citizens not living in Europe are not covered by GDPR. Non-EU citizens living
within the EU are covered by GDPR. (At least that is my understanding… AIUI, GDPR applies to EU residents,
not EU citizens.)
 
Owen
 

 
On Apr 11, 2018, at 06:44 , Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
 
Thanks Mike,
 
That’s actually pretty useful in some sense – but can I ask for an English interpretation of the last sentence for those of us that sadly don’t speak Lawyer ☺
 
Thanks
 
Andrew
 
 
From: Mike Silber <silber.m...@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 April 2018 at 16:34
To: "Abibu R. Ntahigiye" <ab...@tznic.or.tz>
Cc: Andrew Alston <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com>, General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss@afrinic.net>, AfriNIC Discuss <members-disc...@afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and the GDPR
 
If I can add to this, there is as yet no clear direction from the European DPAs as a collective on how GDPR affects whois access in general.
 
The RIPE NCC approach is premised on their interactions with the Dutch DPA, rather than a Europe wide approach.
 
In addition, I am not sure I concur with Mr Alston’s insistence that “holding data of EU citizens” automatically places AfriNIC into the category of data controller in terms of GDPR or imposes any requirements on AfriNIC, particularly as the GDPR applies to processing of personal data in the context of the activities of an establishment of a controller or a processor in the Union.
 
The extraterritorial application is premised on a nexus requirement set out in general terms in Recital 23, but requiring specific determination in terms of national law by Member States.
 
Mike
 


 
On 11 Apr 2018, at 13:36, Abibu R. Ntahigiye <ab...@tznic.or.tz> wrote:
 
Dear Andrew, Members and the whole Afrinic community,
Andrew has raised a very important issue for Afrinic operations - Thanks so much Andrew.
The Board would like to inform you that the issue was discussed within the Board at the Afrinic 27 meeting in Lagos and the Management was tasked to work on the issue.
The Board has also been made aware that the Mauritius Data Protection Act 2017 is already in effect and is aligned with the EU GDPR regulations.  The Board believes that these regulations are not a barrier to publication of the WHOIS data, and it has noted the RIPE NCC study that made such a finding.  The Board further believes that the biggest changes required by AFRINIC are in documenting how personal data is used, and in informing people at the time data is collected. 
The AFRINIC management will provide further updates on the issues at AIS 2018 in Senegal.
Further to the above, the Board expects to receive more insights on GDPR  related issues at the joint Boards (AfriNIC and RIPE NCC) meeting planned in Senegal.

Kind regards


 
On 11/04/2018 08:42, Andrew Alston wrote:
Hi AfriNIC Board,
 
Can this board please *urgently* inform this community as to what preparations they have made as regards to compliance with the General Data Protection Regulations passed by the European Commision and the board will be in a position to give this community a full and complete report as to their GDPR compliance status and what will be changing before the 25th of May to ensure that when the GDPR comes into force AfriNIC is compliant.
 
Considering that the regulation comes into force on the 25th of May 2018 – and AfriNIC is 100% holding data of EU Citizens, which makes them subject to the regulations irrespective of the fact that they are domiciled in Mauritius – this is an urgent and critical issue.  It has direct impact on the whois database, abuse contact information, handling of data submitted during application process and potentially even the proposed review policy, just to name a few things that I can think of off the top of my head – and cannot be ignored.  I would in fact have liked to have seen discussions by the board in the minutes that have been published about the GDPR long before now – considering the impact – but failing that – the question is now being asked.
 
Andrew
 
 
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-- 
Abibu R. Ntahigiye
 
CEO, tzNIC / Interim Chairman, Afrinic.
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Kris Seeburn

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