Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss. Jehovahseun
On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n ., <ezekiel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear Caleb, > I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions > to all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded > too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a > response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to > you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in > another planet. > First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for > AFRINIC. > Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point. > Third, you did not include that fact that some of the mentors appointed > by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the fellows to push their > polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows > via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the > PDP chair. > @ Heleen and other fellows? is this not True. > AFRINIC fellows were used by some to achieve thier aim. There is a > serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in > appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided > access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex > fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about > WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day. > > Regards > Jehovahseun > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 8:56 PM , <rpd-requ...@afrinic.net> wrote: > >> Send RPD mailing list submissions to >> r...@afrinic.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> rpd-requ...@afrinic.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> rpd-ow...@afrinic.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> (Taiwo Oyewande) >> 2. Re: RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 (afia faith) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:21:54 +0100 >> From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewand...@gmail.com> >> To: hkari...@isoc.or.ke >> Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net, r...@afrinic.net >> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> Message-ID: <f620e652-527e-483e-a40f-38411d42b...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> @hellen. >> >> Thank you for you insight. Please can you attach a copy of the summary >> given to you to help new intakes get up to speed. - this is what I >> encourage and hope AFRINIC can give to new comers and hopefully distribute >> in the new comers session- . >> >> @ caleb >> .......... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkari...@isoc.or.ke wrote: >> > >> > Taiwo, >> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting >> in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that >> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also >> had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite >> discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and >> contributing to policy discussions. >> > Regards, >> > Hellen >> > >> > >> >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> >> policies to be discussed. >> >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> >> Cheers. >> >> Taiwo O >> >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> >>> <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: >> >>>> Wafa, >> >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >> >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >> >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >> >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >> >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >> >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >> >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >> >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >> >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >> >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >> >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >> >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >> >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >> >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >> >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >> >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >> >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >> >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >> >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >> >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >> >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >> >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >> >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >> >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >> >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >> >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >> >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >> >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >> >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >> >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >> >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >> >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >> >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >> >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >> >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >> >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >> >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >> >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >> >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >> >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >> >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >> >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >> >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >> >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >> >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >> >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >> >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >> >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >> >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >> >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >> >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >> >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >> >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >> >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >> >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >> >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >> >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >> >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >> >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >> >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >> >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >> >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >> >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >> >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >> >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >> >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >> >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >> >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >> >>>> do with the content or the policy. >> >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >> >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >> >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >> >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >> >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >> >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >> >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >> >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >> >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >> >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >> >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >> >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >> >>>> and >> >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >> >>>> Thanks >> >>>> Andrew >> >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <w...@ati.tn> >> >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> >>>> TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net >> >>>> CC: r...@afrinic.net >> >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> >>>> Hi >> >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >> >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >> >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >> >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >> >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >> >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >> >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >> >>>> the PPM and after.... >> >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >> >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >> >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >> >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >> >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >> >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >> >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> >>>> consensus process. >> >>>> Section 6 >> >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> >>>> consensus. >> >>>> Section 7 >> >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >> >>>> rough consensus >> >>>> My African fellows, >> >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >> >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >> >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >> >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >> >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> >>>> The real education package is as below: >> >>>> ===== >> >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> >> >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> >>>> AFRINIC constitution >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> >>>> Registration Service Agreement >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >> >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> >>>> AFRINIC PDP >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> >>>> Rough Consensus >> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> >>>> RiRs PDPs >> >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> >>>> ============== >> >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >> >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >> >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >> >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >> >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >> >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >> >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >> >>>> conduct. >> >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >> >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >> >>>> development process and operations. >> >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> >>>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >>> -- >> >>> VIVIEN >> >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> >>> p:+852 29888918 >> >>> f:+852 29888368 >> >>> e:a....@laruscloudservice.net >> >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> >>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> Links: >> >> ------ >> >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> >> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > b >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:47 +0100 >> From: afia faith <faitha...@gmail.com> >> To: r...@afrinic.net >> Subject: Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 >> Message-ID: >> < >> caap+vo2xe8id4ppvvctyfrcbtaodtefowckyw32xo5oktdp...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Taiwo, >> Yes all the fellows are members of the RPD mailists so they knew what >> happened during PDP day. Yes we do 'discuss' policies within Afrinic >> Fellowship program but no we do not tell fellows what to say, they are in >> charge of their own opinion. Sorry,my name is Afi and i was the returning >> fellow for AFRINIC30. >> Thank you. >> >> Best, >> Afi Edoh >> Systems & Network Engineer/UN IGF MAG Member >> AFRINIC-27 l AfriSIG 2018 l AU-CIEFFA AMBASSADOR >> Mobile: (+228)91760238/ (+233) 540837065-WhatSapp >> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/afiedoh/> l Skype:afia.faith l >> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/afia.edo> l Twitter >> <https://twitter.com/afiafaith> l Website >> <http://www.afrotribune.com> >> >> *we live once so live right* >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 8:19 PM <rpd-requ...@afrinic.net> wrote: >> >> > Send RPD mailing list submissions to >> > r...@afrinic.net >> > >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> > rpd-requ...@afrinic.net >> > >> > You can reach the person managing the list at >> > rpd-ow...@afrinic.net >> > >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> > than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..." >> > >> > >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > (hkari...@isoc.or.ke) >> > 2. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > (Taiwo Oyewande) >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:35:00 +0300 >> > From: hkari...@isoc.or.ke >> > To: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewand...@gmail.com> >> > Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net, r...@afrinic.net >> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > Message-ID: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc440...@isoc.or.ke> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> > >> > Taiwo, >> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in >> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that >> > we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We >> > also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and >> > onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue >> > learning and contributing to policy discussions. >> > Regards, >> > Hellen >> > >> > >> > On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> > > Hi all, >> > > >> > > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> > > policies to be discussed. >> > > >> > > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> > > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> > > members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> > > >> > > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> > > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> > > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> > > >> > > Cheers. >> > > >> > > Taiwo O >> > > >> > >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> > >> <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> Wafa, >> > >>> >> > >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >> > >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >> > >>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >> > >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >> > >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >> > >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >> > >>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >> > >>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >> > >>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >> > >>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >> > >>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >> > >>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >> > >>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >> > >>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >> > >>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >> > >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >> > >>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> > >>> >> > >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >> > >>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >> > >>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >> > >>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >> > >>> >> > >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >> > >>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >> > >>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >> > >>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >> > >>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >> > >>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >> > >>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >> > >>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >> > >>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >> > >>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >> > >>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >> > >>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >> > >>> That is called hypocrisy. >> > >>> >> > >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >> > >>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >> > >>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >> > >>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >> > >>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >> > >>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> > >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >> > >>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >> > >>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >> > >>> don?t like the individual doing it? >> > >>> >> > >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >> > >>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >> > >>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >> > >>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >> > >>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >> > >>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >> > >>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >> > >>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >> > >>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >> > >>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >> > >>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >> > >>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >> > >>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >> > >>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >> > >>> >> > >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >> > >>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >> > >>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >> > >>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >> > >>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >> > >>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >> > >>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >> > >>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >> > >>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >> > >>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >> > >>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >> > >>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >> > >>> do with the content or the policy. >> > >>> >> > >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >> > >>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >> > >>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >> > >>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >> > >>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >> > >>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >> > >>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >> > >>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> > >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >> > >>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >> > >>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> > >>> >> > >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >> > >>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >> > >>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> > >>> >> > >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >> > >>> and >> > >>> >> > >>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >> > >>> >> > >>> Thanks >> > >>> >> > >>> Andrew >> > >>> >> > >>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <w...@ati.tn> >> > >>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> > >>> TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net >> > >>> CC: r...@afrinic.net >> > >>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > >>> >> > >>> Hi >> > >>> >> > >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> > >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >> > >>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >> > >>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> > >>> >> > >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >> > >>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >> > >>> participants interventions on the proposals. >> > >>> >> > >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >> > >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >> > >>> the PPM and after.... >> > >>> >> > >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >> > >>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >> > >>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >> > >>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >> > >>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >> > >>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >> > >>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> > >>> >> > >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> > >>> consensus process. >> > >>> >> > >>> Section 6 >> > >>> >> > >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> > >>> consensus. >> > >>> >> > >>> Section 7 >> > >>> >> > >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >> > >>> rough consensus >> > >>> >> > >>> My African fellows, >> > >>> >> > >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >> > >>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >> > >>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >> > >>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >> > >>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> > >>> >> > >>> The real education package is as below: >> > >>> >> > >>> ===== >> > >>> >> > >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC constitution >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> > >>> >> > >>> Registration Service Agreement >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC policy manual >> > >>> >> > >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC PDP >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> > >>> >> > >>> Rough Consensus >> > >>> >> > >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> > >>> >> > >>> RiRs PDPs >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> > >>> >> > >>> RIR comparative policy overview >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> ============== >> > >>> >> > >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> > >>> >> > >>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> > >>> >> > >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >> > >>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >> > >>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >> > >>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> > >>> >> > >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >> > >>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >> > >>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >> > >>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >> > >>> conduct. >> > >>> >> > >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >> > >>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >> > >>> development process and operations. >> > >>> >> > >>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> >> > >> VIVIEN >> > >> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> > >> p:+852 29888918 >> > >> f:+852 29888368 >> > >> e:a....@laruscloudservice.net >> > >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> > >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > >> > > >> > > Links: >> > > ------ >> > > [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > > Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > b >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:17:38 +0100 >> > From: Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewand...@gmail.com> >> > To: hkari...@isoc.or.ke >> > Cc: community-discuss@afrinic.net, r...@afrinic.net >> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > Message-ID: <906c337a-852d-4857-b7f5-1cd392051...@gmail.com> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> > >> > @ >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkari...@isoc.or.ke wrote: >> > > >> > > Taiwo, >> > > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting >> in >> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm >> that we >> > were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also >> > had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite >> > discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and >> > contributing to policy discussions. >> > > Regards, >> > > Hellen >> > > >> > > >> > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> > >> Hi all, >> > >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> > >> policies to be discussed. >> > >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> > >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> > >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> > >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> > >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before >> every >> > >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> > >> Cheers. >> > >> Taiwo O >> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> > >>> <andrew.als...@liquidtelecom.com> wrote: >> > >>>> Wafa, >> > >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >> > >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >> > >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >> > >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >> > >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >> > >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >> > >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >> > >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> > >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >> > >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >> > >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >> > >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >> > >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >> > >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >> > >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >> > >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >> > >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >> > >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> > >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >> > >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >> > >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >> > >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >> > >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >> > >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >> > >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >> > >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >> > >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >> > >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >> > >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >> > >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >> > >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >> > >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >> > >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >> > >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >> > >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >> > >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >> > >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >> > >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >> > >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >> > >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >> > >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> > >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >> > >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >> > >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >> > >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >> > >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >> > >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >> > >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >> > >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >> > >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >> > >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >> > >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >> > >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >> > >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >> > >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >> > >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >> > >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >> > >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >> > >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >> > >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >> > >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >> > >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >> > >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >> > >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >> > >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >> > >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >> > >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >> > >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >> > >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >> > >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >> > >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >> > >>>> do with the content or the policy. >> > >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >> > >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >> > >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >> > >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >> > >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >> > >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >> > >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >> > >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> > >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >> > >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >> > >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> > >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >> > >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >> > >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> > >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >> > >>>> and >> > >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >> > >>>> Thanks >> > >>>> Andrew >> > >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI <w...@ati.tn> >> > >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> > >>>> TO: community-discuss@afrinic.net >> > >>>> CC: r...@afrinic.net >> > >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > >>>> Hi >> > >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> > >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >> > >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >> > >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> > >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> > >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >> > >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >> > >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >> > >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >> > >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >> > >>>> the PPM and after.... >> > >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >> > >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >> > >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >> > >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >> > >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >> > >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >> > >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> > >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> > >>>> consensus process. >> > >>>> Section 6 >> > >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> > >>>> consensus. >> > >>>> Section 7 >> > >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >> > >>>> rough consensus >> > >>>> My African fellows, >> > >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >> > >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >> > >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >> > >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >> > >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> > >>>> The real education package is as below: >> > >>>> ===== >> > >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> > >> >> > >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> > >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> > >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> > >>>> AFRINIC constitution >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> > >>>> Registration Service Agreement >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> > >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >> > >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> > >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> > >>>> AFRINIC PDP >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> > >>>> Rough Consensus >> > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> > >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> > >>>> RiRs PDPs >> > >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> > >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >> > >>> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> > >>>> ============== >> > >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> > >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> > >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >> > >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >> > >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >> > >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> > >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >> > >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >> > >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >> > >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >> > >>>> conduct. >> > >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >> > >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >> > >>>> development process and operations. >> > >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >> > >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >>>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> > >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >>> -- >> > >>> VIVIEN >> > >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> > >>> p:+852 29888918 >> > >>> f:+852 29888368 >> > >>> e:a....@laruscloudservice.net >> > >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> > >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >>> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> Links: >> > >> ------ >> > >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net >> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > b >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Subject: Digest Footer >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > RPD mailing list >> > r...@afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 >> > ************************************ >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20190703/1425e599/attachment.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> r...@afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 41 >> ************************************ >> >
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