Wow, this one trolls rant has been taken way too far. Half the emails in my box have the subject of FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Lally Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yup, responding to my own post. I've got more to say on this. > > This'll be it for a while, I want to see how this community's going to > > go without me dragging it kicking & screaming. > > > > Growing up in a bunch of open-source projects, a developer has to > > decide which ones to work with. You can't work on every open source > > project you use daily -- there are literally hundreds we touch as we > > go. Instead, we pick and choose. How? Two criteria: > > 1. The project itself. > > 2. The community. > > I caution you in painting pictures of the community or it's members - > we're ALL self-centric and those self-centricities are often as wrong > as they are right. > > My criterion to which projects to help have nothing to do with the > community but in many cases the lack of it. My single criterion is how > well the project meets my need. OpenMoko, for instance, didn't have > good documentation when I joined and documentation is something I > think is useful. My motivations to help the project come from purely > selfish motivations - the desire to fill in the gaps that matter to > me. > > Perhaps you allude to this, and if so, I agree. If not, then I ask you > to tak a step back and recognize the varied and diverse reasons that > people value Free Software. > > > > > > If the community's really friendly and invites you in, you're more > > likely to contribute. If they reply to your inquries with a bunch of > > RTFM, Write it yourself, or (what the rest really are saying) f*ck > > off, then you're not going to go near them. > > This next statement is going to reflect "poorly" on the Debian > community but I will, at this moment, disclaim my connection with them > so that the "bad" is my burden not theirs... > > The first day I installed Debian GNU/Linux I was told "Read the > fucking manual". Back then, they weren't nice enough to abreviate it > for me. :) > > You argue that every person treated "rudely" is a potential > contributor lost. Perhaps I'm in the obscure minority but it was that > notion of self-reliance, that "do it yourself or it won't get done > right" mentality that pushed me to contribute. I'm not a programmer in > the sense of any of the project's I've contributed to but I like to > think that I DO contribute to projects by being passionate and being > persistant. > > Every person told RTFM is a person being told to be responsible for > themselves. Where you see it inspiring a developer to avoid I project, > I see it inspiring a hacker to start hacking. > > > > > > The "build it and they will come" mentality *DOES*NOT*WORK*. I'll > > remind you it came from a Kevin Costner movie, which really proves my > > point. You have to fight for every user. The nice part is, you only > > have to be nice and helpful... Things good leaders are anyway. > > > I don't disagree with you on points here. My only notice here is that > right NOW, OpenMoko is a "typical Free Software project". Fine. cool. > When OpenMoko goes "mass market" it will NOT be a typical project. All > of the axioms we've learned will be wrong at that point will be proven > or disproven but will hold no bearing on what a Free Software project > is. There has not yet been a Free Software project that set out, from > the begining, to bring freedom. Not Apache, not Linux. WHile they MAY > have achieved "critical mass" they didn't set out to be Free... GNU, > which DID set out to be Free, failed by not releasing a complete OS > "in time". > > Again, I don't disagree with you here on principal, but I do question > the logic being asserted - OpenMoko is the ONLY platform advocating > use freedom and control so all of the evidence we have on one side or > the other is questionable at best. > > > > > > If I get a few more of these well-poisoning messages I'm out -- my > > efforts here would be wasted as the community would never go anywhere. > > I've always found that my desire to join and contribute to projects > are directly related to how I see that project benefiting me. By my > worldview, if you see OpenMoko as benefiting you, what "the community" > does is irrelevant since YOU are the only one you can directly control > to provide that benefit to you. I see individuals working to meet > their needs, altruism fails dramatically when your goal is to appeal > to the mass market. You introduce several forms of diversity that > begin conflicting. There comes a point in that great slippery slope > when you must choose to do EVERYTHING and upset the "minimalist" or > leave things out and offend the people who want "thing A". > > A project founded on freedom and control, that self-same "do it > yourself" mentlality, allows the use to do what matters to them, and > ignore the community. Democracy is a beautiful principal if you can > ignore the fact that the majority is not always right. > > > > If people step up and actually try to build a real community, I'm in. > > I think there are more than a few others who feel the same way. > > With all of my criticism, I beleive that community is critical to the > development of ANYTHING, and Free Software projects specifically. I'm > not a coder, but I do beleive I have the capacity to write well and > communicate efficiently. That strength is something that is useful, so > I contribute it. Someone who is artistic can contribute in ways that a > structual, process-driven programmer can't begin to (though there are > some notible exceptions whom I can put name to). To reject these > strenghts is paramount to evolutionary suicide. > > Yes to hold OpenMoko Inc. and FIC accountable to the strengths or > shortcomings of the people who choose to be attracted to the project > require a mindnumbing ignorance of reality. OpenMoko (as the project) > appeals to a BUNCH of people in a bunch of ways and no ONE is going to > be the "right" way. Personal responcibility means engaging yourself in > a community that may not be optimal. God forbit the "debian" elitists > who tried Ubuntu refused to help the Windows "lusers" who thought it > looked pretty. > > OpenMoko is about freedom - the freedom to contribute how you can or > to not contribute at all. Where we go knowing that is on us. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > H. Lally Singh > > Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science > > Virginia Tech > > _______________________________________________ > OpenMoko community mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > _______________________________________________ OpenMoko community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
