On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:05:59PM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:46:15 -0700 Ken Restivo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > > > > i repeat... why ONE? why does everyone think we HAVE to support just ONE? > > > why? > > > > 1) reliability, bugfixes, fit and finish > > 2) critical mass of applications > > 3) usability > > 4) it's a smartphone, I want to be able to actually use it, not just load > > distros endlessly on it > > no - i'm talking toolkit. you are equating distro WITH toolkit. there is no > need to do that. OM will ship with 1 image and will be building and supporting > an official OM image. other people may build and support their own - this is > distros here i am talking about. hey have the freedom toand more power to > them! > > > > does your desktop linux distro ONLY run gtk apps? you can't use kde or qt > > > apps? or SDL based games? or java apps? the desktop distro must also just > > > choose ONE widget set and then all apps must use it? NO! this is wrong. > > > please stop thinking this way. it's a limiting way of thinking. we have > > > available to > > > > I agree with you about the widget sets. I think it's foolish to try to lock > > a > > distro to only one widget set, and thus ignore all the great apps that would > > otherwise be available using another widget set. That said, I want only one > > distro, which uses all the widget sets. My Debian system is loaded with apps > > that use every widget set ever known to mankind (Tk, Gtk, Qt, KDE, FLTK, > > whatever). > > that is what OM is working on - remember this is openembedded. you can install > any package from an OE package feed you like! its not fixed. > > > > developers their FAVORITE languages and FAVORITE toolkits - they dont NEED > > > to go learn anything! that is the whole point! use what you already know! > > > > > > > Unless you really don't aspire to make anything beyond phones for > > > > systems techies, you will have to pick just one distro that the phone > > > > will ship with, won't you? You surely cannot switch distros from time > > > > to time, since your existing user and developer base will expect to > > > > see some continuity. > > > > > > switching distro is up to you. OM will ship a distro by default we work on > > > one. the content and flavor of that distro is aiming at the above - > > > support > > > as much as possible so we dont alienate people. if we said "only gtk apps > > > in c" then all the python, ruby, java, c#, qt, c++ etc. devs run away, or > > > HAVE to change. > > > > Again, I'm very glad that the phone lets me program in Python, or C, or > > whatever. It was a great thrill to sit here in my terminal and be working > > with an interactive Python interpreter on my telephone. But, again, as a > > user, I want one distro that has *everyone* pulling together to make it > > great > > and solid-- using whatever programming language, widget set, etc, that > > pleases them. Diversity in the service of unity. The two always exist > > simultaneously in tension, and the great art is deciding where to apply the > > diversity and where to apply the unity. I'm suggesting diversity in toolkits > > and languages, in the service of unity of finished product. > > ALL the distros are based on openembedded. they are all compatible (same > package manager, pakcaging systems, same base core os packages etc). they just > all give you a different starting point. >
#hank you for the detailed and informative response! I didn't understand any of the above (which was probably very obvious), and you made it very clear to me now. It seems to be a sensible approach. May I paraphrase some of this and turn it into a Wiki page? (Where exactly to put it would be another interesting question). > think of it as ubuntu vs xubuntu vs kubuntu etc. its the same os. just > different starting point. > > > > same if we said qt/c++ only, or phython only, or java only. why should you > > > be boxed into a single box and a distro is only allowed to have 1 box? > > > why? > > > just because every other phone maker works this way does not mean we have > > > to. > > > > > > > So perhaps I can clarify: what distro do you intend to ship with to end > > > > users? > > > > > > > > If it is ASU, and I must wait, thats just fine with me, but your > > > > response above seems to contradict that. > > > > > > ASU is what openmoko is working on. > > > > > > > I'd appreciate your helping us out here since I'm probably not the > > > > only one confused ... what am I missing? > > > > > > > > Then ASU is the one I will work on too. I'm glad to be running it now. It > > seems excellent. All I need is to get the matchbox keyboard to replace the > > quite awful and useless keyboard that comes with ASU, and I'm all set to > > really enjoy this thing. > > the default keyboard is just as usable as the matchbox one. there is a full > qwerty layout file available for it. keyboard layout is just a config file. > unlike the matchbox keyboard it is also usable with a finger not just a > stylus. > Great! I didn't know that. Is this documented anywhere on the Wiki or should I start some page, i.e. Customizing_ASU_keyboard ? -ken _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
