Diana, I agree that communities need to be involved in leading solutions to solvable problems of healthy food access. And that community gardens can be a part of the solution. If I did not agree on that last score, then I really have no business on this list.
However, many of the issues that define the struggles of low-income communities do not originate, or are not unique, to their neighborhood, but rather are part of misguided and destructive federal policy and/or societal indifference. For example, it is not within the responsibility of a community to ensure livable wages for every worker, to end subsidies for unhealthy food, to end racism, or to fully fund inner city schools. That is everyone's responsibility. Regards, Steven Steven M. Garrett, PhC, MS, RD Food Geographer "Will work for food issues" ________________________________ From: Diana Liu <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; Steven Garrett <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:05:44 AM Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Teaching a (wo)man to fish Hi, Steven. I agree with you whole-heartedly. However, I believe that solutions of these types need to come from the communities. Many communities are working hard to find their own solutions, while equal access to food is being fought. No one is saying the community garden is the ONLY solution, but it is part of the solution. It is/could be an important part of the community, and it goes beyond just growing food and providing good nutrition. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love. - Lao Tzu “Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.” - Winston Churchill ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Steven Garrett <[email protected]> wrote: From: Steven Garrett <[email protected]> Subject: [Community_garden] Teaching a (wo)man to fish To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 9:58 AM Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to this and other posts in this thread. I have been busy and also thinking about how best to respond to this thread. I did not write those examples of the short comings of a purely educational approach to unhealthy diets thinking that there were no possible work-arounds for those, or other, specific problems. I managed nutrition education programs for low-income folks for 17 years, and my staff was quite adept at solving individual problems. What I failed to express was that I was not talking about individual problems. What I was talking about was a food environment that makes coping more difficult for low-income people as a group or community than for more affluent people. Removing such barriers will not happen if we continue to think that ensuring adequate nutritional health is solely a product of individual ignorance. Comments in this thread said that a solution to not having access to a supermarket, and thus fresh produce in your neighborhood, was to have a community garden plot or a container garden. There are numerous problems with such blithe recommendations. In the low-income suburban neighborhood I am studying, there is no supermarket, and car ownership is low. This 'hood is on a hill, so in the recent freaky snowstorm, busses could not make it up there for days at a time, and there was no way to walk to a store. There are an average of 4 adults per household, which means that many people are moving from one house to another, so container gardening is problematic, at best; as is canning windfall. There is no community garden and even if there were, produce makes up around only 8% of the diet. Most of the healthy foods that we need can't be grown in a small garden. And while our maritime climate allows for some year round gardening, winter output is limited. And of course, cheap food costs less per calorie, due to the subsidies on basic industrial food inputs (soy, wheat, and corn). So while being a trained and experienced nutrition educator, I maintain that teaching (wo)man to fish is not nearly as effective unless we also fight to help everyone to have easier access to the pond. Regards, Steven ________________________________ From: "Gibes, Julie" <[email protected]> To: Steven Garrett <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 7:11:18 PM Subject: RE: [Community_garden] Teaching a (wo)man to fish (was CSA) Dear Steve, To answer your three points: 1. You can teach no bake cooking and/or campfire methods, food safety and security. 2. You can teach container gardening that can be done anywhere. 3. You can always show someone what value is when shopping, bartering or trading. Not everyone shops at supermarkets. Respectfully, Julie Gibes ps I just signed up for this email list serve two days ago and frankly I was taken aback from some of the verbal exchanges. I guess I do not have to watch my soap opera anymore! I have been told to be hopeful to glean some useful information from among the muck. Julie Gibes Garden Nutrition Educator Community Garden Assistant UW Extension Rock County 51 S. Main Street-Courthouse Janesville, WI 53545 608-757-5696 608 757-5581 (fax) ________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Steven Garrett Sent: Tue 1/6/2009 12:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Community_garden] Teaching a (wo)man to fish (was CSA) Elle, The Chinese fish proverb that you paraphrased has many merits, but it also has limitations. What is the good of having a (wo)man who now knows how to fish, but cannot afford a fishing pole and/or has no access to a place to fish? As someone who has many years experience in community food, nutrition and gardening for low-income youth and families, I can attest that there are numerous instances where my stretching of this ancient proverb has real world applications. For example: 1. Teaching someone how to cook nutritiously when they do not have a stove. 2. Teaching someone to garden who has no access to land. 3. Teaching someone to shop well on a limited budget but there are no supermarkets in their neighborhood.Improving and expanding education is necessary, but is not sufficient. Our economic system needs to change. Respectfully, Steven Steven M. Garrett, PhC, MS, RD Food Geographer "Will work for food issues" ________________________________ From: Eadams <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; the john doe experience <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 9:35:29 AM Subject: Re: [Community_garden] communitty supported agricultture Instead of giving money to the poor why not give them the education they need to support themselves. Teaching them to fish is the sustainable way, not giving them fish. They can then start their own businesses and help others. Elle --- On Tue, 1/6/09, the john doe experience <[email protected]> wrote: From: the john doe experience <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] communitty supported agricultture To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:34 AM your time would be better spent giving money to the poor. im not even slightly phased, lets talk about this again in five years. capitalistpigs still eat their own. i never attacked csa's. pay attention.the milwaukee project coordinator sited limited space as a reason to charge alot of money, which equals inflation. go get some mental preperation H before you start arguing with me. people who defend themselves like this sound guilty peace,love and happiness, me On 1/5/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > I know, I should know better than to add to inflammatory posts such as > these, but just can't read any more without putting my two cents in. > > Sir, > It might surprise you to know that I read books and the list serve in the > winter months. > Your comments about the Milwaukee project as well as CSA's are almost as > inflammatory as those you wrote about the "capitalist pigs". Why wouldn't you > expect those who support them to jump to the defense of the CSA's? > > As for those capitalist pigs, one of them continues to sign my paycheck > which allows me to spend the rest of my time in my veggie garden. Support from > this capitalist pig has also allowed me to start veggie classes in the growing > months. Do I charge for those classes? You bet, is that capitalism, most > likely. Do I make sure that the fiscally impaired folk can afford them, you > bet. > > Since you admittedly have little information on the Milwaukee project why > jump to the negative conclusions you have asserted most of this day? Perhaps > they do not reply as they are too busy living the 'let all be fine and well > life' instead of witting about it. > > Yes, lets do try a little more peace and harmony. Classism, so closely > related to Racism, lets try to keep it all out of the garden! > > Just another peaceful hippie trying to talk her walk! > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20090105/71d2706a/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org <http://www.communitygarden.org/> > > To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org > -- feed two birds with one seed _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org <http://www.communitygarden.org/> To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20090106/59b6e3c5/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org <http://www.communitygarden.org/> To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20090106/56409f5c/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org <http://www.communitygarden.org/> To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20090113/247473cc/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20090113/f6e427c9/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20090113/78824823/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
