Re: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation togamerecords ?

Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:57:50 -0800 



Dogs can play Go?  No.  They can't.  Dogs also cannot search for files
on your computer.  Why are my CPU cycles being wasted to animate a dog
who may or may not pretend to know something that I don't?  Is it
purely to annoy?  If so, hats off.


Most (German) users enjoyed the dog. It was just fun. My nephew was too 
young. He did not understand that the word of the dog are not serious. Thats 
also a lesson we learned.
The wasted cycles are no problem for a chess programm. Its anyway too strong 
for most users. It was in fact a challenge to make the programm weaker. 
Nobody plays nowadays for fun against a chess programm at its highest level.
Its not sufficient just to search more shallow. The programm should mimic 
human errors.  E.g. even world champion Kramnik missed recently in the match 
against Fritz a mate in 1, because it was an unusual pattern. But other mate 
in 1 are even for a beginner easy to spot. For a programm a mate in 1 is a 
mate in 1. One has therefore to introduce filters which differentiate 
between easy and difficult mates. Generally Artificial Stupidity is almost 
as difficult as Artificial Intelligence. In both cases one has to understand 
the working of the human mind.
I think it is also generally an interesting and important topic to present 
computation results in a more natural way than numbers. The Schweinehund was 
just for entertainment. But entertainment is also a serious and difficult 
business.


Chrilly



On 12/14/06, Chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I know of no research, but chess-programms like e.g. Fritz do this to a
certain degree. There was (maybe is) an award by the ICCA-Journal for the

best annotation by a programm. But I do not remember any papers how this 
is

done. Trade secret.
I have implemented another form of "annotation" in my chess-programm

"Schweinehund". An animated dog made comments on the game. This was 
insofar

relastic, as my nephew felt insulted by his uncle. The dog made some bad
comments about his playing style. But the underlying mechanism was rather
primitive. The animation sequences were mainly selected due to evaluation

changes and some online behaviour. E.g. when the human opponent took a 
long

time for his move, he was many or only a few moves in the opening book...
The impression of realism and meaningfull comments was due to the dog.


I have my doubts that one can make with current Go programms a 
meaningfull

annotation. For this purpose the programm must be much stronger than the

user. E.g. when the dog said "this was your second best move" the 
programm
must be relative sure, that the human played a blunder. It increases the 
fun
if the dog is in a small percentage of cases wrong. But if the dog is 
most
of the time wrong and the human move was in fact quite strong, its 
annoying.

The generell advantage of an animated character is, that the

comment/annotation must no be so detailed and one can "cheat" a little 
bit.
E.g. if the programm realized that the comment before was wrong, the dog 
can

say "forget it, was just a joke". The difficult part is that it is an
online-algorithm. In case of an annotation one can analyse the whole game
before generating some comments.

Chrilly


----- Original Message -----
From: ""荒木伸夫"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <computer-go@computer-go.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:51 AM
Subject: [computer-go] Are there researches about human annotation to
gamerecords ?


> Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you.
>
> I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for

> machine learning. (for example, "these stones are weak", "this move is 
> for
> attack those stones", "this move was bad"  ...etc) Does anyone know 
> such

> researches?
> _______________________________________________
> computer-go mailing list
> computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

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