Jeff,
We took our risks and lost... the wreckage is fairly visible all around
us and will become more soberingly evident with time. If you think Asia
is sleeping while we dither about our problems, you are naive. Last I
heard their growth rate is currently 8% while ours is negative.
The space exploration you are talking about is going to be done but as
it seems now... not by us... probably by the Chinese because they have
the money and income to pay for it and make that very long term
exploratory investment.
Unless we fix our economic engine... so it provides real and substantial
income for the nation as a whole... we won't and shouldn't be allowing
any sectors to have essentially their carte blanche way with substantial
parts of our budget for purposes of their self betterment at our expense
and indebtedness.
Not the military, not the insurance companies and not the space program.
If we continue to allow those massive drains on our system without
getting our economic house in order first, America won't be leading
anything in the 21st century except its entry onto the rolls of history
of failed world powers.
Why and how do you think past failed world powers relinquished their
power and wealth?
They didn't decide to give up ... they just were stuck with outmoded
images and expectations of themselves and so made poor, foolish
"out-of-touch" decisions and investments exactly when competing upcoming
powers were making practical and empowering ones. So they got beat and
replaced by those who focused and took hold of the basic implements of
power.
The space program is not a basic implement of power... it's a wonderful
symptom and benefit of power and wealth ... if you've got it. We
presently don't.
When home owning, basic health insurance and our national security are
all being severely tested and at major risk, it's not the time to be
committing a major part of our bankrupt national budget (money we don't
have) to outer space.
Unless you happen to be in the space industry and of course would like
money from us...
Or unless you want to give Asia another implement to sink us with...
Money we borrow from them is money they will use to control our future
for their benefit.
Get real!
My 3 bits...
db
Jeff Miles wrote:
I find it so disappointing hot short sighted logic and well
meaning people can be.
DB, I'm going to pull a Star Trek reverence on you, but you're a
Vulcan. It's going to take you thousands of years to figure out you
need or even how to wipe your butt. To dangerous and doesn't figure in
with the science.
Doing great things requires great risk. I'm guessing you didn't
really pay much attention in history class.
I guess it really comes to where you want your kids an future
relatives to be. Should they stay on a slow but basic stagnic course
to future extingsion? I'm ignoring spelling. Or should they strive for
more? Damn the logic and get human and go for it. If you're human, it
makes you who you are.
Now to the question of who pays for it. We all pay for it in the
end. And we all benefit in the end. Of course this depends on you
definition of benefiting. Would you rather be chipping spear heads?
Growing up means realizing everything comes with a cost.
Should we outlaw the internet today? It has cost so may people so
much.
On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:11 PM, db wrote:
Yeh ... let private industry develop this new manned space flight.
And why won't they just do that on their own if it is such a great deal?
Because these private corps and their stockholders want the rest of
us ... the taxpayers without bankruptcy protection who are just
trying to hang on to our mortgages/ pay for medical care etc ... to
pay all the setup costs so then they can't make a profit.
Such a deal! Just like the ones military industrial complex and
medical insurance industry rams down our throats.
Come back from outer space. We've got to get back to basics in this
country and postpone some of the things we want to do ... have been
used to doing ... until we have our "house in order."
This country has itself mortgaged to the hilt ... is totally
dependent on foreign competing nations for the security of it's
economy and it still has an ANOTHER unseen "mortgage" of
international trade being conducted in US dollars that is likely to
come due if we don't get real and start living by our means.
It's to our advantage that trade is in dollars and increasingly with
our economic slide to other nations disadvantage.
If we don't get our finances on solid footing again, the money making
countries will be adopting a different currency of exchange and our
system will take another HUGE dive once no one wants dollars anymore.
We in the US need to turn our attention from outer space to "inner
space" for a while or suffer the consequences me thinks...
Go to Mars when we've got affairs on Earth on solid footing again...
db
This BS system of corps using us
b_s-wilk wrote:
Energy is only as free as the technology to capture and distribute it.
The advantages in manufacturing are cancelled out by the costs. Are
the corporations that want to use microgravity for production going
to absorb all the risks? Or is this yet another example of
socializing risk with federal investment in R&D and privatizing the
profits? Uh oh. That gets us back to what's wrong with health
insurance legislation.
Robots are as smart as the scientists who design them. Robots have
done well for us so far. Patience with the slow rate of advances for
human space travel will make travel safer and more productive in the
long run. Research now--travel later.
I have a ticket for travel to Mars that I got years ago at Cape
Canaveral. I'll send it to you if I can find it. Ready for a trip to
Mars? Imagine riding a bicycle on Mars! [The ticket for a flight to
the moon expired 10 years ago.]
Microgravity offers real advanages in alloy and semiconductor
maufacturing, also pharmaceuticals. We now know how to construct
large structures in orbit and maintain a long term presence in space.
Energy is unlimited and free. Four nations/national consortia can
boost
cargo into orbit and to the station assuming JAXA's HTV is successful.
I see the potential as enormous. But we have to be there to
realize it.
The ISS is a good start. If we look at it as a platform for the
assembly
of space-only ships, and as a fuel transfer point, we could explore
the
L4 and L5 Lagrangian points. The moon is probably not a good idea
if we can't prove the presence of water.
Robots aren't smart enough to do it all, and if we look at this new
frontier as a government monopoly we are shortchanging ourselves.
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