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There are 6 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: HELP!?
From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Revised Grammar sketchlang
From: Rodlox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Basque Gender Marking (was Re: Further language development Q's)
From: Tamas Racsko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: Effect on number agreement when new numbers arise
From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Celtic languages?
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: Revised Grammar sketchlang
From: Robert Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:02:48 +0200
From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: HELP!?
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:53:22 +0200, Rodlox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was asked to relay this for a friend:
> >
> > does anybody think they can help?
Given that he appears to quote a message sent to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], rather than [EMAIL PROTECTED] (
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rodlox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
), I presume that your friend tried to post to that address.
As far as I know, the Yahoo!Groups version is purely read-only: useful
as an archive or to read individual messages, but you can't send to
that address. Attempting to reply sent an email to the canonical
address of the list (due to the Reply-To header, no doubt), which is
not allowed unless the friend has joined the "real" CONLANG list:
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=conlang&A=1
Once he has done so, he should be able to post to the list.
Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Watch the Reply-To!
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:48:08 +0200
From: Rodlox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Revised Grammar sketchlang
Possible Glossary for a Conlang...
a semi-nomadic hunting people
(this conlang may eventually merge with C-10, my cheetah language).
Pronouns: (note: the 'male'/'female' categories
( indicate what each gender says -- a guy would
(use the male "gender" of the word; a girl, the female "gender").
.
| male
| female
plains
| ien
| ine
mountain
| iña
| iñ
scrub
| ioñe
| oñe
desert
| niñ
| ñin
caves
| oeñ
| oen
coast
| ayoñ
| ayñ
lake
| añ
| añea
sea
| ana
| aña
(note: not all nouns have
(pronouns as above -- only
(enviroments/habitats/ecosystems
( have pronouns as above).
.
| Statement
| Question
| Some/Few
| Any
| Every
| No
Person
| hiñe
| huñe (2)
| hiskeb
| hiskee (4)
| hiske
| hisk
(Adjective)
| yane
| yune
| hiskab
| hiskaa
| hiska
| hisk
Quanity
| hisiñe (3)
| hosiñe
| hiskob
| hiskoo (1)
| hisko
| hisk (5)
(1) = two short |o| sounds, not one lone |oo| sound.
(2) = "someone was here?", "did the person...?" etc.
(3) = "_this_ many!" etc.
(4) = "any person [at all]", "pick someone!"
(5) = "no amount!"
Wordlist:
.
| interlinear
| nominal
| verb
landslide
| aka-ebe
| akayebe
| akanebe
smooth
| oa-eb
| oayneb
| oaneb
{note: when the word ends in
{a consonant, insert an |n| following the |y|}.
[This message contained attachments]
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:08:39 +0100
From: Tamas Racsko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Basque Gender Marking (was Re: Further language development Q's)
On 28 Sep 2004 "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The same cannot be said of Sumerian: especially early on, it was
> often the case that *no* grammatical elements were written down,
> just (some of the) verbal and nominal roots deemed important to
> remember the oral text, since Sumeria was still an *oral* culture.
I this case I wonder whoever could have ornamented later those
roots with particles resembling now case endings, modd markers etc.
If they were Sumerians, did they really think that these particles
should be inserted into the oldish root-only texts in an artificial
way differring as much as possible from the real spoken language?
Or were they Accadians and did they invent a conlang from the root-
only Sumerian texts differing as much as possible from Semitic
structure?
The theory you cite could descibe the source of _all_ scripts
including also very early logographic Chinese, Egyptian. Every pre-
writing culture was oral. If we deny that Sumerian cultural-regal
centres could invent (gradually) a "high-fidelity" writing system
despite their ordinary oral culture, we must deny the same in case
of every other nation.
However if Thomsen is true than Sumerian was much more
polysynthetic that it could be deduced from its written form.
Because Thomsen's thesis "more and more grammatical elements and
phonetic complements were gradually added" says that the written
form was less complex, i.e. more analytical, more "isolating". In
this case it is still worth to present this system that is so
complex even in its torso. (The Sumerian noun phrases are much
more interesting to know that they could be more
complex, more surprising in fact :))
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:23:49 +0200
From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Effect on number agreement when new numbers arise
David wrote:
> Pete also wrote:
>
> <<>(B (Jhttp://dedalvs.free.fr/(B
>
> By the way, where are all these strange characters coming from? I've had to
> edit them out of all the previous lines manually.>>
>
> I have no idea.
It appears that your message was, for some reason best known to your
mailer, encoded as ISO-2022-JP - and each line had ESC ( J (switch to
"JIS X 0201-1976 Roman") at the beginning and ESC ( B (switch to
"ASCII (ANSI X3.4-1986)") at the end of each line.
> My copy of the message doesn't have any strange
> characters (well, except the strange box it put where you put a
> thorn in the name of your language).
And that was probably the cause - your system couldn't display the
thorn (since it's not in the Mac standard character set, I believe),
and your mailer apparently used the Japanese "geta mark" to replace
it. AFAIK, using that mark to replace a character that's not in the
current font is moderately common in Japanese contexts, but given that
we're not using Sino-Japanese characters, the usage is a bit unusual.
And since this Japanese character was in the message, your mailer
decided to encode the entire thing in ISO-2022-JP, which makes eminent
sense for email. The problem is, why did it put that symbol in the
message to begin with?
Incidentally, I also find it a bit annoying that your messages contain
both an HTML and a plain-text payload, especially since it makes
quoting your message more difficult - Gmail doesn't automatically add
> signs when quoting an HTML message portion, and that is the portion
it displays by default if a a message has both HTML and plain text.
Your quotes, set off with <<....>> rather than with > at the beginning
of each line, also make it a bit more difficult to see what's a quote;
Gmail colours quotations differently, but relies either on that
punctuation or on having seen a given line of text before in another
email (which means that the first and last line of your quotations are
not coloured, since the << >> characters did not appear in the line
youa re quoting).
Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Watch the Reply-To!
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:11:42 +0200
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Celtic languages?
Quoting Ray Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Tuesday, September 28, 2004, at 11:04 , Andreas Johansson wrote:
> > FWIW, my encyclopaedia says that the Balkanic and Minor Asiatic Celts
> > probably
> > consisted of a warrior elite of Western or Central European extraction
> > ruling
> > over peoples speaking non-Celtic languages.
>
> _probably_ is, I think, an important word. It is making the assumptions:
> (a) that Galatai = Keltai
> (b) that Celts were essentially a western warror people.
Well, only that these particular Celts, if Celts they were, were a warrior
people. It's easy enough to find modern examples of small elites ruling over
foreign populations while the majority of the elite's ethnic group still lives
as common people back in the homeland.
> There are IMO far too many assumptions made concerning 'Celts' (both
> ancient & modern) and too little actual evidence.
> > Livius.org claims that Celtic languages were spoken on the east bank of
> > the
> > Rhine well into the Christian Era. No details beyond that they used
> > clusters,
> > such as /gb/, ill tolerated by Latin phonology.
>
> Again, one would like to know the _evidence_ used by Livius.org
They're not too good at documenting their sources. FYI, here's an article of
theirs about a suposedly Celtic people from the Rhineland:
http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cugerni/cugerni.html
Andreas
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:17:28 +0000
From: Robert Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Revised Grammar sketchlang
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Rodlox-
You know, that not only was extremely hard to understand, but it was very
garbled. Please don't do that again.
- --
- -----------------------------------------------
The CONLANG-IRC Server: priscilla.ath.cx #conlang
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