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There are 10 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Future English
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Future English
From: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Future English
From: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. I was wondering something...
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Future English
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Scamto in the news
From: Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Future English
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Matein Einlich (Modern English)
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Matein Enleich - Babel text
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Matein Einlich - The North Wind And The Sun
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:43:26 -0800
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Future English
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:06:59 -0500, Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Why's that? It's already happened in some creoles, e.g. Tagalog.
>
Be careful about calling Tagalog a creole. Spanish and English
influence is great, but I'd hardly call it a creole (or perhaps you
see it that way, but I don't)
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:48:31 -0500
From: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Future English
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:32:33 +0100, =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg?= Rhiemeier
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>That's a good start! I'd like to see more of it. What are the
>sound changes like?
Thanks. :)
The sound changes are pretty simple, basically a simplification of the
current English phoneme inventory. Aspiration, rather than voicing,
becomes the primary distinction between stops. The vowels are simplified,
phonemically, into a classic 5-vowel scheme. Basically the long/short
vowel distinctions are lost, stressed schwa and /6/ become /o/ (e.g.
gun /gVn/ > gon /kon/, father /'fA.D6/ > fado /'fa.to/), unstressed schwa
becomes /a/, and /&/ merges with /e/. Phonetically, unstressed non-low
vowels have lax allophones and the low vowel /a/ schwa in closed
syllables. Most consonant clusters are erased and/or simplified -- all
initial and final ones are erased. The dental fricatives /T/ and /D/ merge
with /t_h/ and /t/ (written |t| and |d|), respectively. Also, the labial
approximant /w/ merges with /v/. Due to foreign influence, the former
voiceless glottal fricative /h/ is now pronounced as a voiceless velar
fricative -- /x/ (but still written |h|). Stress falls on the first
syllable of every word and is weaker than that of current English.
Some examples of the sound changes:
three [Tri:] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'ri] > dari ['ta.ri]
stir [st6] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'to] > sado ['sa.to]
kat [k_h&t_h] > keta ['[EMAIL PROTECTED]
test [t_hEst] > tesda ['[EMAIL PROTECTED]
walk [wAk_h] > vaka ['[EMAIL PROTECTED]
smoke [sm_0oUk_h] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'mok_h] > samoka
['[EMAIL PROTECTED]
speech [spi:tS)] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'pitS)] > sabic(a)
['sa.pIts)] ~ ['sa.pi.tS)@]
break [br\eIk_h] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'4ek_h] > bareka ['[EMAIL
PROTECTED]
pray [p_hr\ej] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'4e] > pare ['p_ha.4e]
stay [stej] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]'te] > sade ['sa.te]
future ['fju.tS)6] > *fjuco ['fju.tS)o] > fuco ['fu.tS)o] or fiuco
['fi.u.ts)o]
take him ['t_heIk_h hIm] > tekim ['t_he.k_hIm]
high [haj] > hai [xaI]
>And it is not implausible, though I would give it at least 1000 years
>to evolve. 500 years are a bit short, I think. The transformation
>of a mostly analytic, inflecting language into a highly synthetic
>agglutinating language is interesting.
I think you're right. It should be at least 1000 years in the future.
- Rob
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:50:14 -0500
From: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Future English
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:43:26 -0800, B. Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Be careful about calling Tagalog a creole. Spanish and English
>influence is great, but I'd hardly call it a creole (or perhaps you
>see it that way, but I don't)
Sorry, I think I cited the wrong language. Tok Pisin is the one I meant to
invoke.
- Rob
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:52:01 -0800
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: I was wondering something...
I was thinking of this just now. In Ayhan, the bases of words are
roots. Roots are generally nouns, or adjectives/adverbs, but
sometimes the roots cannot be used alone (such as for abstract
concepts, like "thought") and need a prefix to make it into a noun,
adverb/adjective/ or a verb (so these roots remain "unfunctional"
until they are augmented with an affix to determine its role).
I know there have to be other natural languages which do that, so i'm
not asking if this is an ANADEWism (although if you'd like to chime in
on that angle you can), but, what I want to know is, are there other
conlangs that do something similar?
Or maybe I have simple stems and don't realize it, which then makes it
all very mundane :).
--
You can turn away from me
but there's nothing that'll keep me here you know
And you'll never be the city guy
Any more than I'll be hosting The Scooby Show
Scooby Show - Belle and Sebastian
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:53:28 -0800
From: "B. Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Future English
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:50:14 -0500, Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: Constructed Languages List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Poster: Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Future English
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:43:26 -0800, B. Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I think I cited the wrong language. Tok Pisin is the one I meant to
> invoke.
>
Well, there *is* a creole in the Philippines, called Chavacano
(actually it's a grouping of Spanish derived creoles found from Cavite
to Zamboanga). A friend of mine in University was fluent in it, which
was interesting to hear her speak.
--
You can turn away from me
but there's nothing that'll keep me here you know
And you'll never be the city guy
Any more than I'll be hosting The Scooby Show
Scooby Show - Belle and Sebastian
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:00:16 -0800
From: Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Scamto in the news
By Rebecca Harrison
JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - Fancy some Jesus and his
brothers, or a ride in a g-string? And why is it that
abantu abu baie bane kwal'nge-cherry?
This is South Africa's latest street slang -- a mix of
the 11 official languages with nicknames thrown in for
beer, cars, weapons and sexual positions that has
grown out of the country's sprawling townships.
Hailed by its fans as a symbol of the country's
diversity 11 years after the end of apartheid,
"scamto" has become the language of choice for South
Africa's black urban youth and its first exhaustive
guide is due out next month.
Complee story at
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=7&u=/nm/20050208/od_nm/life_safrica_slang_dc
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:23:12 -0500
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Future English
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 23:10:25 -0500, Rob Haden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This thread has inspired me to develop a grammar and syntax for a Future
>English language. This Future English will be spoken at least 500 years
>from now. It demonstrates many of the characteristics of modern-day Hebrew
>and Arabic:
>- VSO word-order
>- Proclitic prepositions
>- Prefixed subject markers and suffixed object markers on (transitive) verbs
>- Mostly prefixing TMA morphology
<snip>
Why don't you try out your new English by translating the Babel text?
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of:
Intergermansk: http://www.choton.org/ig/
Chatiga: http://www.choton.org/chatiga/
Choton: http://www.choton.org
Ichwara Prana: http://www.choton.org/ichwara/
Skälansk: http://www.choton.org/sk/
Advanced English: http://www.choton.org/ae/
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:41:12 -0500
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Matein Einlich (Modern English)
Here's my revised version of my future English, now with the grammatical
changes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matein Einlich (Modern English)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Phonetic pronunciation. ch=/C/, kh=/x/, au=/aU/, ei=/ai/, eu=/OI/
Grammatical changes:
- The plural "-s/-es" got detached and turned into the particle "esh", which
is now placed before the word. It is not used when a specific amount is
given by a number.
- The genitive "'s" turned into the prefixed particle "as" ("asa" before
consonant). The "of"-construction died out.
- Prepositions changed to Postpositions, often suffixed with a hyphen.
- The indefinite article died out, the definite article turned into the
suffixed particle "ti" ("i" after consonant). This definitive marked is also
used for forming the ordinal numbers and fractions from the cardinal numbers.
- Adverbs (-ly) are not marked anymore.
- Original plural personal pronouns died out. Those are now formed using the
plural marker "esh".
sing. plur.
1st p. I->ej*->ech /eC/ eshej*/eshech
2nd p. you -> iu /i.u/ eshiu
3rd p. (m) he -> chi /Ci/ echi
3rd p. (f) she -> chia /Ci.a/ echia
3rd p. (n) it -> et /Et/ eshet
Mixed gender groups always use the (n) form.
* ej/eshej are outdated forms, hardly used anymore.
- Verbal endings got detached and are now particles placed before the verb.
This eliminated all irregular verbs.
- Tenses don't use any auxiliary verbs anymore, only the particles.
Present Past Pres. Perf. Past Perf. Futur1 Futur2
Particle: -- it isit itit ul ulit
from: -- -ed is+-ed -ed+-ed will will+-ed
Continuous Cont. Past Conditional Cond. Past Passive
Particle: ein einit ut utit +em
from: -ing -ing+-ed would would+-ed am
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of:
Intergermansk: http://www.choton.org/ig/
Chatiga: http://www.choton.org/chatiga/
Choton: http://www.choton.org
Ichwara Prana: http://www.choton.org/ichwara/
Skälansk: http://www.choton.org/sk/
Advanced English: http://www.choton.org/ae/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:44:22 -0500
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Matein Enleich - Babel text
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matein Einlich (Modern English)
Bereshit (Book of Genesis) Chapter 11, 1-9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Naf chaul feult-i it cheu un lenfeish ujt sheim esh feut-i.
2 Ein sheunei eishfits, esh min it sein flein Chine-ni en it shitsla tia.
3 Eshet it sheu tsa un enata: "Kham! Lit eshech meikh preikh en peun eit
tarau!" Eshet it chus esh preikh einshtit shteun en tsau einstit meuta.
4 Tin eshet it sheu: "Kham! Lit eshech peilt sheitsi seu eshech ujt tsafa
shei-ti-tsu, tsa meikh neim seu eshech, sha tets eshech nats em shetsa chaul
eut-i-euf."
5 Pats CheChim it kham tafun tsu shei sheitsi-ti en tsafa-ti esh min einit
peilt.
6 CheChim it sheu: "Eis ish un feifel ujt un lenfeish tei isit pikan ein
tu teish, natein tei flen tsu tu ul pei eimfasheipel seu eshet.
7 Kham! Lit eshech kau tafun en khansiush as-eshet lenfeish, sha tets tei
nats ul antirshtent eish atau."
8 Sha CheChim it shetsa eshet chaul eut-i-euf, en eshet it shtaf ein peilt
sheitsi-ti.
9 Tirseu sheitsi-ti itit neim Pepil, peikhush tia ChaChim khansiush chaul
asa-feult-i lenfeish; tia-rem CheChim it shetsa eshet chaul eut-i-euf.
Translation:
1 Now the whole world had one language with the same words.
2 Journeying eastwards, men found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to one another: "Come! Let's make brick and burn it
thorougly!" They used bricks instead of stone and tar instead of mortar.
4 Then they said: "Come! Let's build a city for us with a tower up to the
sky, to make a name for us, so that we are not scattered over the whole earth."
5 But HaShem came down to see the city and the tower men were building.
6 HaShem said: "If as one people with one language they have begun doing
this, nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come! Let's go down and confuse their language, so that they will not
understand each other."
8 So HaShem scattered them over the whole earth, and they stopped building
the city.
9 Therefore the city was named Babel, because there HaShem confused the
language of the whole world; from there HaShem scattered them over the whole
earth.
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of:
Intergermansk: http://www.choton.org/ig/
Chatiga: http://www.choton.org/chatiga/
Choton: http://www.choton.org
Ichwara Prana: http://www.choton.org/ichwara/
Skälansk: http://www.choton.org/sk/
Advanced English: http://www.choton.org/ae/
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:51:39 -0500
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Matein Einlich - The North Wind And The Sun
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matein Einlich (Modern English)
The North Wind And The Sun
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neut feint-i en shan-i einit teishfuts ujsh ut pi shtrana, fin tsefila it
kham elan it uref feum khleukh-ni. Eshet it ekrei tets chu un-i it shakheit
tsu meikh tsefila-ti teukh af asa-chi khleukh ul pi khansheita shtrana ten
ato-ti.
Tin neut feint-i it pleu es chaut es chi it khen, pats ti meu chi it pleu,
ti meu khleush tsefila-ti seult asa-chi khleukh erafent chi; en ets lausht
neut feint-i it keif af etimt-i.
Tin shan-i chein aft feum, en eimitjits tsefila-i teukh af asa-chi khleukh.
En sha neut feint-i itfo aplish tsa khansish tets shan-i it pi shtrana-ti af
eshet.
Translation:
The north wind and the sun were disputing which would be stronger, when a
traveller came along wrapped in a warm cloak. They agreed that who first
succeeded to make the traveller take off his cloak will be considered
stronger than the other.
Then the north wind blew as hard as he could, but the more he blew, the more
closely the traveller folded his cloak around him; and at last the north
wind gave up the attempt.
Then the sun shone out warmly, and immediately the traveller took off his
cloak. And so the north wind was obliged to confess that the sun was the
stronger of them.
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of:
Intergermansk: http://www.choton.org/ig/
Chatiga: http://www.choton.org/chatiga/
Choton: http://www.choton.org
Ichwara Prana: http://www.choton.org/ichwara/
Skälansk: http://www.choton.org/sk/
Advanced English: http://www.choton.org/ae/
________________________________________________________________________
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