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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Using Case to Show Tense
From: Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Using Case to Show Tense
From: Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: New language Noygwexaal
From: Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: New language Noygwexaal
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. very short samples
From: Jonathan Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: New language Noygwexaal
From: Geoff Horswood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: very short samples
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: very short samples
From: Sanghyeon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: New language Noygwexaal
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. OT: Germanic Food (was: Expressing "that's how")
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Re: very short samples
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12. Re: New language Noygwexaal
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13. Re: New language Noygwexaal
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14. New, yet unnamed experimental script
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15. C'ali update: desinences; gender
From: Thomas Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16. Re: New, yet unnamed experimental script
From: Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17. Re: Using Case to Show Tense
From: Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18. Re: very short samples
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19. Re: OT: Germanic Food (was: Expressing "that's how")
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20. Re: New, yet unnamed experimental script
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21. Re: very short samples
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22. Re: very short samples
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23. Re: a conlang in Bergman's _The Silence_?
From: "Joseph a.k.a Buck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24. Colors as verbsl
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25. Re: Expressing "that's how"
From: Trent Pehrson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:33:05 -0500
From: Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Case to Show Tense
"Edward Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wonder how many grammatical items you can express using the same
> three case markings... *evil laugh*. The main issue lies in the human
> mind parsing it all >.<
> I suppose I could always make a conculture made of lilliputians with
> heads the size of melons?
Perhaps a race of anime characters that got stuck in their chibi forms,
reproduced, and then had to evolve up from there?
> In ending, I would also appreciate suggestions on introducing aspect
> into this system: my design goal for the inflectional aspect (pardon
> the pun) of the language is to indicate as much information about the
> verb as possible on its nouns, without making the nouns look like
> Y'upik Eskimo
You could always make the verbs into clitics like S11 ;-)
--
Damian
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:43:14 -0500
From: Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Case to Show Tense
>Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps a race of anime characters that got stuck in their chibi forms,
> reproduced, and then had to evolve up from there?
*dies of Chibi Cuteness*
> You could always make the verbs into clitics like S11 ;-)
S11 is cool, and if the maker can endure making so many co-verb
concepts, all the more power to them. I enjoy grammar too much and
phonology/word-making too little to do that though! :-D
Anyways, back to making tommorow's post...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:33:05 -0500, Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Edward Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wonder how many grammatical items you can express using the same
> > three case markings... *evil laugh*. The main issue lies in the human
> > mind parsing it all >.<
> > I suppose I could always make a conculture made of lilliputians with
> > heads the size of melons?
>
> Perhaps a race of anime characters that got stuck in their chibi forms,
> reproduced, and then had to evolve up from there?
>
> > In ending, I would also appreciate suggestions on introducing aspect
> > into this system: my design goal for the inflectional aspect (pardon
> > the pun) of the language is to indicate as much information about the
> > verb as possible on its nouns, without making the nouns look like
> > Y'upik Eskimo
>
> You could always make the verbs into clitics like S11 ;-)
>
> --
> Damian
>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:43:33 -0500
From: Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New language Noygwexaal
"Henrik Theiling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > q /D/
>
> Hahaha! :-)
[...]
> (Why do the orcs use Latin characters, btw?)
Because they use the internets, of course! :-)
> > There are 6 noun classes: warm/bright, hard, soft, liquid/wet,
> > abstract/immaterial, and magical.
>
> So I take the classes are grammatically assigned and sometimes
> unexplainably illogical, right? I mean, there are warm *and* hot
> things, just to give one example. And the moon -- well -- it is
> neither warm nor bright -- at least it's not bright by emitting it's
> 'own' energy.
In addition to the infrared vision explanation, justify it
diachronically by appealing to a conculture: When gender
was being grammaticalized so many years ago, did their
astronomers know that moons do not produce light?
> I have another question: what's orkish about this lang? Is it your
> definition that it's spoken by orcs?
Again diachronically: orkish nation conquered by elves and/or
"elvish"-speaking men, either militarily or through trade.
--
Damian
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:36:14 -0500
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New language Noygwexaal
Henrik Theiling wrote:
>And the moon -- well -- it is
>neither warm nor bright -- at least it's not bright by emitting it's
>'own' energy.
Well :-S
It's still bright even it doesn't do so by itself, because if you place some
limits, where will it be exactly?
Is a fire bright? probably, but it uses the energy of what's burned
Is a fluorescent object bright? I'd say yes, but it uses the energy of
another source and it will stop as soon that energy will stop. Even the
phosforescent object uses another's ernergy after it disapeared.
If *I* had to make such class, I'd place in the bright class any object from
wich there comes light, including when it doesn't produces it itself.. But
that's only what I'd do..
- Max
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:37:15 -0800
From: Jonathan Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: very short samples
con-lego proxi:
dis i-memo ix in gomilego*
gomilego ix con-auxilego*
¿du comp dis bon o mal?
¿du amo gomilego?
Mekem-langis plenti-fren,
tis I-mel bi inna Terapang.
Terapang bi kon-Inglis-pijin.
Ya tis gud savi? No gud?
Ya liekem Terapang?
--
Hanuman Zhang, MangaLanger
Language[s] change[s]: vowels shift, phonologies crash-&-burn, grammars
leak, morpho-syntactics implode, lexico-semantics mutate, lexicons explode,
orthographies reform, typographies blip-&-beep, slang flashes, stylistics
warp... linguistic (R)evolutions mark each-&-every quantum leap...
"Some Languages Are Crushed to Powder but Rise Again as New Ones" -
title of a chapter on pidgins and creoles, John McWhorter,
_The Power of Babel: A Natural History of Language_
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:40:15 -0500
From: Geoff Horswood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New language Noygwexaal
>On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:40:29 +0100, Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
[snip]
>>(Why do the orcs use Latin characters, btw?)
Conculture reason:
When they're writing in man-letters (probably Latinate), this is how they
do it.
RL reason:
I wanted a slightly nonstandard romanised orthography.
As for their own script, it's written vertically, starting at top right
corner and proceeding in columns from right to left.
>>
>>> [2] modifiers, especially adjectives, are usually conjoined to the
>>> front of their head to create long compound words. The exception is
>>> in sentences like "the dragon is black".
>>
>>I like this! How do you say:
>>
>> 'Green is beautiful.'
>>
>>Or may 'green' be used as a noun, too? Would you have to say:
>>'Green-colour is beautiful'?
"Green" may be used as a noun. Most words can stray from their specified
part-of-speech role, so something that's technically an adjective can be
used as a noun ("green is beautiful") or even as a verb ("the grass greens
again after the drought").
>>I have another question: what's orkish about this lang? Is it your
>>definition that it's spoken by orcs?
>
>Exactly. I'm thinking of following up with a really crunchy, guttural elf-
>language, possibly with clicks. This is in the interests of "It seemed
>like a good idea at the time".
>
This, of course, is most of the raison d'etre of this lang. I'm trying to
turn all of the fantasy language stereotypes around, so we have a fairly
fluid, "elvish" sounding goblin tongue, a guttural elf-language full of
clicks and stops, a highly aspirated, "breathy" dwarf-tongue, and so on.
Not sure what I'll do with the humans of that realm. I'll see what seems
good later.
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:29:15 -0500
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very short samples
H. Zhang, W.O.G., skribil:
> con-lego proxi:
> dis i-memo ix in gomilego*
> gomilego ix con-auxilego*
> ¿du comp dis bon o mal?
> ¿du amo gomilego?
>
> Mekem-langis plenti-fren,
> tis I-mel bi inna Terapang.
> Terapang bi kon-Inglis-pijin.
> Ya tis gud savi? No gud?
> Ya liekem Terapang?
>
Fasil-lah. Mi suka (gusto?). :-))))
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:25:51 +0900
From: Sanghyeon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very short samples
Jonathan Chang wrote:
> dis i-memo ix in gomilego*
> gomilego ix con-auxilego*
> ¿du comp dis bon o mal?
> ¿du amo gomilego?
I guess, "This email is in Gomilego. Gomilego is conauxlang. You
understand this good or bad? You like Gomilego?" On the other hand, re
"con-lego proxi:". What is "proxi"?
> tis I-mel bi inna Terapang.
> Terapang bi kon-Inglis-pijin.
> Ya tis gud savi? No gud?
> Ya liekem Terapang?
Again guessing, "This email is in Terapang. Terapang is
con-English-pidgin. You this good save(not sure)? No good? You like
Terapang?" I couldn't figure "Mekem-langis plenti-fren" part. I see a
word "plenty", but can't guess the whole phrase.
Seo Sanghyeon
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:34:35 -0500
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New language Noygwexaal
Geoff Horswood wrote:
I'm trying to
> turn all of the fantasy language stereotypes around, so we have a fairly
> fluid, "elvish" sounding goblin tongue, a guttural elf-language full of
> clicks and stops, a highly aspirated, "breathy" dwarf-tongue, and so on.
> Not sure what I'll do with the humans of that realm.
Wha?? Are you Tolkien's evil twin? the un-Tolkien? :-))))) (obviously, the
humans in such a case would speak...hmm, Russian? Thai? how contrary do you
want to be!? :-))))
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:10:36 +0200
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT: Germanic Food (was: Expressing "that's how")
On Mar 24, 2005, at 4:12 AM, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> So wird Brei gekocht: ...
> so is porridge cooked: ...
> 'This is how porridge is prepared: ...'
> **Henrik
_Brei_ (/braj/?) is 'porridge'?
Interesting...
In Yiddish, _matza brai_ is a (primarily Passover) food which is like
'french toast' made out of matza (unleavened bread) broken into small
pieces.
-Stephen (Steg)
"quit it with the damn schwa already! i hate phonetics!"
- my friend e
(back when we took intro to linguistics together)
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:45:49 +0200
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very short samples
On Mar 24, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jonathan Chang wrote:
> con-lego proxi:
> dis i-memo ix in gomilego*
> gomilego ix con-auxilego*
> ¿du comp dis bon o mal?
> ¿du amo gomilego?
> Mekem-langis plenti-fren,
> tis I-mel bi inna Terapang.
> Terapang bi kon-Inglis-pijin.
> Ya tis gud savi? No gud?
> Ya liekem Terapang?
> -
> Hanuman Zhang, MangaLanger
Ai(?) liekem Terapang, & comp dis gomilego bon (mostly).
Mi(?) amo totum(?) pijin/conlego blong(?) Hanuman! :-P
-Stephen (Steg)
"quit it with the damn schwa already! i hate phonetics!"
- my friend e
(back when we took intro to linguistics together)
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:55:42 +0200
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New language Noygwexaal
On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:34 AM, Roger Mills wrote:
> Geoff Horswood wrote:
> I'm trying to
>> turn all of the fantasy language stereotypes around, so we have a
>> fairly
>> fluid, "elvish" sounding goblin tongue, a guttural elf-language full
>> of
>> clicks and stops, a highly aspirated, "breathy" dwarf-tongue, and so
>> on.
>> Not sure what I'll do with the humans of that realm.
> Wha?? Are you Tolkien's evil twin? the un-Tolkien? :-))))) (obviously,
> the
> humans in such a case would speak...hmm, Russian? Thai? how contrary
> do you want to be!? :-))))
Aren't the |_h| digraphs in Tolkien's Dwarf-language (Khuzdul)
aspirated stops? I.e., not /xuzdul/.
-Stephen (Steg)
"quit it with the damn schwa already! i hate phonetics!"
- my friend e
(back when we took intro to linguistics together)
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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:20:25 +0100
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New language Noygwexaal
Quoting Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:34 AM, Roger Mills wrote:
> > Geoff Horswood wrote:
> > I'm trying to
> >> turn all of the fantasy language stereotypes around, so we have a
> >> fairly
> >> fluid, "elvish" sounding goblin tongue, a guttural elf-language full
> >> of
> >> clicks and stops, a highly aspirated, "breathy" dwarf-tongue, and so
> >> on.
> >> Not sure what I'll do with the humans of that realm.
>
> > Wha?? Are you Tolkien's evil twin? the un-Tolkien? :-))))) (obviously,
> > the
> > humans in such a case would speak...hmm, Russian? Thai? how contrary
> > do you want to be!? :-))))
>
> Aren't the |_h| digraphs in Tolkien's Dwarf-language (Khuzdul)
> aspirated stops? I.e., not /xuzdul/.
That's right; /k_huzdul/. The aspirated-unaspirated distinction in voiceless
stops is perhaps Khuzdul's most exotic phonetic feature compared to other
Tolkienian languages.
Andreas
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:20:37 +0100
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: New, yet unnamed experimental script
Hey!
Sorry for cross-posting, but ...
Please have a look here:
http://www.beckerscarsten.de/temp/script_unnamed.jpg
I came up with this script yesterday late in the evening, I worked about
an hour on what you can see there. I was bored by the rectangular "Box
Script" for my conlang Ayeri.
This one turned out as a corssing between Gujarati, Thai and some other
Indic/(SE-)Asian letter shapes somehow, as I adore the elegant look of
those alphabets. I am not completely content with this yet, but it'd be
a good candidate to replace the Box Script -- or to be just another
script that is or was used to write Ayeri and its descendands.
Carsten
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 04:39:57 -0600
From: Thomas Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: C'ali update: desinences; gender
So, it occurred to me that I had never done anything
on this list about case declensions in C'ali. Phaleran
has, at eight, a larger number of cases than C'ali's
three. But those eight cases in Phaleran are largely
agglutinative in nature, while C'ali's cases are divided
into seven primary declensional classes, and 15 to 20
smaller and generally unproductive ones. In the
C'aliological literature they are known not by number
but by poetic names given them by the first C'ali
grammarians:
tlokwastoru < tlokwa-, 'blade given to youths upon
entering adulthood'
snykhestoru < snykh-, 'eclipse of Gelene' [*]
saxmëstoru < saxmë-, 'martial prowess' [+]
æntwesistoru < æntwes-, 'game of hunt'
qwelistoru < qweli-, 'fallen leaf, fall foliage'
ainaxestoru < ainax-, 'ruddy soil'
eut[nustoru. < eut[nu-, 'down'
[[*] Remember that Phalera is actually a moon of the gas giant
Gelene that orbits Upsilon Andromedae. For a period of around
five to six days approximately every eight months, Phalera
enters the umbra of Gelene, totally blocking out all but
artificial and star light. The fact that Phalera does rotate
on its own axis and does not have a rotation equal to its
revolution, as would be expected of a satellite of a large
planet, has lead Phaleran scientists to conclude that Phalera
was gravitationally caught by Gelene at some cosmologically
relatively recent date.
[+] This word is now the standard word for 'man' as can be
seen in all my earlier posts on C'ali.]
These names, handily, are mnemonic in nature, since each
word is also a member of the class which it names. Using
the above order of declensional class, we have:
Agent Patient Genitive Typical Gender
1. -qa -s -m [ II ]
-phu [ III ]
2. -oi -kxë -ous [ IV ]
3. -thei -ci -n [ I ]
4. -ti -si -in [ I ]
-sön [ III ]
5. -ti -lai -qo/-qwa [ III ]
-th'e
6. -C:a [*] -teio -my [ V ]
7. -lem -'es -n [ V ]
[ [*] the [C] here represents a lengthening of the
preceding consonant.]
A certain amount of morphological levelling has occurred
in this paradigm. Under pressure from third declension
masculine nouns, the patientive suffix -sön has been remodelled
on -ci which share the same gender. Likewise, the highly
marked complex glottalized aspirate /th'/ (actually not a phoneme,
but a harmonic cluster that patterns like one) in fifth declension
nouns has a strong tendency to shift towards -ti of the fourth
declension, again especially when sharing the same gender.
GENDER
Gender assignment is by no means absolutely correlated
with desinence class. There are many counterexamples to these
generalizations. One may note that there are five genders:
First: almost all male, whether human or animal; lower
nobility
Second: almost all female, whether human or animal.
Third: flying things, the air, celestial objects,
most deities, most wild animals, all flora,
religious items, members of the upper nobility
Fourth: tools, language acts, most domesticated animals,
water and other liquids, words relating to the
peasantry and the proletariat
Fifth: abstractions, metals, art and artwork, words
relating to the bourgeoisie, foreign loan words
when not obviously fitting into one of the
other categories, epicene gender. The 5th gender
is the residue gender.
There is some tendency for gender I nouns to migrate
to gender III, a reflection of C'ali gender-roles, but this
does not appear to be threatening the vitality of the class.
Likewise, gender IV nouns tend increasingly to be shifting
to gender V.
That's about it for now. At some point if I ever scan in some
of my maps, I'll post to the list.
==========================================================================
Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:16:42 -0500
From: Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New, yet unnamed experimental script
Carsten,
That is a very pretty script! I like the spikiness+flow of it, both
occuring at the same time.
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:20:37 +0100, Carsten Becker
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey!
>
> Sorry for cross-posting, but ...
>
> Please have a look here:
> http://www.beckerscarsten.de/temp/script_unnamed.jpg
>
> I came up with this script yesterday late in the evening, I worked about
> an hour on what you can see there. I was bored by the rectangular "Box
> Script" for my conlang Ayeri.
>
> This one turned out as a corssing between Gujarati, Thai and some other
> Indic/(SE-)Asian letter shapes somehow, as I adore the elegant look of
> those alphabets. I am not completely content with this yet, but it'd be
> a good candidate to replace the Box Script -- or to be just another
> script that is or was used to write Ayeri and its descendands.
>
> Carsten
>
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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:25:03 -0500
From: Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Using Case to Show Tense
> Patrick Littell wrote:
> Non-reflexive oblique objects can, in happy oblique tradition, be
> omitted without ambiguity, but it turns out that leaving out "nose-i"
> would lead to the listener being unable to properly deduce the aspect.
> Maybe a doubly case-marked "nose-i-a" would shorten it up a bit.
The goal is indeed to "shorten it up a bit": when three words in a
conlang can express what English takes 10 words to illustrate, that
always gives me joy.Towards this end, I found that you only might
leave out core items when the reflexive affix is on the verb.
Because I like to overwork my affixes...;-D... it occurred to me to
make the reflexive take the case, rather than do a double-case. How
this is handled is likely going to be phonological, but, for sake of
simplicity, we'll assume there are REF forms for each case.
Thus:
FUT REFL: He-a feed-n:REF. "He will feed himself."
The reflexive points to the remaining argument and says what other
role it satisfies, essentially.
>Use the solution mentioned before: add a "dummy"
> reflective affix to an intransitive verb to make it transitive -- say,
> with an emphatic meaning -- and then add voice to *that*.
Hrm... I don't think I want an emphatic meaning like that, unless
"Reflective" and "Reflexive" are different? I thought they were the
same, but if they are different, might be a good idea to have one be
emphatic, and the other not.
This might give different flavors to the verb... mmmmmmmmmm....
Reflexive: He-a won-n:REFX it-DATIVE "He won himself it."
Reflective: He-a won-nREFC it-DATIVE "He himself won it."
...or something like that :-)
In any case, I'll sum all that has been said so far:
A) Case of nouns according to tense/aspect
Ten/Asp S A P
Past p n p
Past Perf i p
Past Prog p d
Present n a p
Pres Perf i
Pres Prog n d
Future a a n
Fut Perf i a
Fut Prog a d
I.E.: Perfect aspect marks the agent as Instrumental, and the patient
as Subject
and
Progressive aspect marks the agent as Subject, and the patient as Dative
*Perhaps I will add more aspects... I could always use semi-clones of
the existing aspects by simply replacing the non-subject case. For
example, I could grammaticalize inception, perhaps using, let's say, a
locative case.
Past Inceptive = l p
Present Inceptive= l n
Future Inceptive = l a
I-L work-p:REF "I began to work."
...etc...
B) Voice of verb determined
Active = no verb affix "PASS" or "APASS"
Passive = verb affix "PASS" and nouns with apparant Perfect aspect
Antipassive = verb affix "APASS" and nouns with apparant Progressive aspect
Reflexive = verb affix "REF" of the form of the "omitted" noun (x:REF)
He-n pen-p hold BUT book-p write-PASS-i:REFX "He held the pen, but the
book wrote itself!"
That's what I have for this morning, but will continue work throughout
the day: have a good one!
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:43:14 -0500, Edward Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Perhaps a race of anime characters that got stuck in their chibi forms,
> > reproduced, and then had to evolve up from there?
>
> *dies of Chibi Cuteness*
>
> > You could always make the verbs into clitics like S11 ;-)
>
> S11 is cool, and if the maker can endure making so many co-verb
> concepts, all the more power to them. I enjoy grammar too much and
> phonology/word-making too little to do that though! :-D
>
> Anyways, back to making tommorow's post...
>
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:33:05 -0500, Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "Edward Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I wonder how many grammatical items you can express using the same
> > > three case markings... *evil laugh*. The main issue lies in the human
> > > mind parsing it all >.<
> > > I suppose I could always make a conculture made of lilliputians with
> > > heads the size of melons?
> >
> > Perhaps a race of anime characters that got stuck in their chibi forms,
> > reproduced, and then had to evolve up from there?
> >
> > > In ending, I would also appreciate suggestions on introducing aspect
> > > into this system: my design goal for the inflectional aspect (pardon
> > > the pun) of the language is to indicate as much information about the
> > > verb as possible on its nouns, without making the nouns look like
> > > Y'upik Eskimo
> >
> > You could always make the verbs into clitics like S11 ;-)
> >
> > --
> > Damian
> >
>
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:55:03 +0100
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very short samples
Hi!
Jonathan Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> con-lego proxi:
?
> dis i-memo ix in gomilego*
> gomilego ix con-auxilego*
> ¿du comp dis bon o mal?
Bon.
> ¿du amo gomilego?
Yes! :-)
Is there inflection? 'amo' looks like first person, of course, so I
had propably used 'am'. Did you consider that? Was that too short to
for your taste?
> Mekem-langis plenti-fren,
'fren'?
> tis I-mel bi inna Terapang.
> Terapang bi kon-Inglis-pijin.
> Ya tis gud savi? No gud?
Gud.
> Ya liekem Terapang?
Yes, also. :-)
The transitive suffix -em is like Tok Pisin, right? Why's the word
order the way it is in 'Ya tis gud savi'? What does 'inna' exactly
derive from apart from 'in'?
**Henrik
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:10:10 +0100
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Germanic Food (was: Expressing "that's how")
Hi!
Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mar 24, 2005, at 4:12 AM, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> > So wird Brei gekocht: ...
> > so is porridge cooked: ...
> > 'This is how porridge is prepared: ...'
>
> > **Henrik
>
> _Brei_ (/braj/?) is 'porridge'?
Yes. :-)
> Interesting...
> In Yiddish, _matza brai_ is a (primarily Passover) food which is like
> 'french toast' made out of matza (unleavened bread) broken into small
> pieces.
Ah, interesting indeed. :-)
'Matzen' is also same strange type of bread in German. I don't know
French toast, but googling reveals it might be similar to what's
called 'Arme Ritter' (lit.: 'poor knights') in German and made with
normal toast, milk and sugar in a frying pan. It's not broken, but
taken as a whole however. But it can easily be turned into some kind
of porridge. :-)
**Henrik
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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:18:01 +0100
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New, yet unnamed experimental script
Hi!
Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hey!
>
> Sorry for cross-posting, but ...
>
> Please have a look here:
> http://www.beckerscarsten.de/temp/script_unnamed.jpg
The handwritten sample look very nice! It seems inspired by Thai and
some Tolkien script of which I forgot the name: the one found on the
ring -- don't beat me for my ignorance, I'm just not a Tolkien fan.
> I came up with this script yesterday late in the evening, I worked about
> an hour on what you can see there. I was bored by the rectangular "Box
> Script" for my conlang Ayeri.
Very nice.
> This one turned out as a corssing between Gujarati, Thai and some other
> Indic/(SE-)Asian letter shapes somehow, as I adore the elegant look of
> those alphabets.
>...
Ah, I should read the whole mail before asking questions... :-)
**Henrik
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:52:54 +0200
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very short samples
On Mar 24, 2005, at 2:55 PM, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> Hi!
> Jonathan Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> con-lego proxi:
> ?
i read that as "conlang friend(s)"... proxi[mate]=close=friend
>
>> Mekem-langis plenti-fren,
> 'fren'?
i thought it was "make-language plenty-friend(s)"
-Stephen (Steg)
"whatever happened to the values of humanity?
whatever happened to the fairness and equality?
instead of spreading love we're spreading animosity;
lack of understanding leading us away from unity.
that's the reason why sometimes i'm feeling under
that's the reason why sometimes i'm feeling down"
~ 'where is the love' by black eyed peas
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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:55:00 +0100
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very short samples
Hi!
Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mar 24, 2005, at 2:55 PM, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> > Hi!
> > Jonathan Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> con-lego proxi:
> > ?
>
> i read that as "conlang friend(s)"... proxi[mate]=close=friend
Ah!
> >> Mekem-langis plenti-fren,
> > 'fren'?
>
> i thought it was "make-language plenty-friend(s)"
Ah, 'plenti-' is simply the plural marker then, I suppose? :-)
**Henrik
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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:59:14 -0800
From: "Joseph a.k.a Buck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: a conlang in Bergman's _The Silence_?
I've never seen the movie, but it is supposed to be in Farsi (modern
Persian).
> I dunno. I may just know too little Kashubian, or whatever
> it is the hotel attendant is mumbling. But I'm pretty sure
> it isn't a real language. Anyone got any ideas?
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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:55:59 -0000
From: caeruleancentaur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Colors as verbsl
--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>"Green" may be used as a noun. Most words can stray from their
>specified part-of-speech role, so something that's technically an
>adjective can be used as a noun ("green is beautiful") or even as a
>verb ("the grass greens again after the drought").
Senyecan is language based primarily on verbs. I'm trying to convert
all lexicon entries into verbs as the base words. So far I've
managed to do this with about 3/4 of the lexicon.
This plan was obstructed briefly when I came to the names of the
colors which were adjectives. Then I remembered that the names of
certain colors in English had been made into verbs with the -en
suffix: redden, blacken, and whiten. Some of the colors use the
adjectival form for the verb, e.g., yellow, green, blue and gray.
And I was delighted to discover two forms I had not known previously:
embrown and empurple!
Thus, in Senyecan all the colors are originally verbs. Since there
is no difference in form between transitive and intransitive verbs,
these verbs can mean, using rúúða as an example, transitively:
redden, make red; and intransitively: redden, become red, turn red.
This is used with all colors, even the intermediate shades, e.g.,
reddish-yellow, bluish-green, etc.
Charlie
http://wiki.frath.net/user:caeruleancentaur
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:17:42 -0500
From: Trent Pehrson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Expressing "that's how"
One way that none of the others mentioned is the posessive approach as in
Mandarin. In Mandarin you can mark an entire phrase as posessive and use
it to modify another word or phrase, something like this:
thus the (you bake a cake)'s way proceedes
or in your syntax:
thus proceeds the (bake you cake)'s way
My language, Idrani, can do this using a relativising circumfix (k'...ko)
and adding a posessive suffix to it something like this:
thus, the way k' you cake bake ko-POS. proceeds
with the Idrani method, you can use either a possessive suffix, as above,
or a modifier suffix similar in meaning to the '-ish' in 'sheepish':
thus, the way k' you cake bake ko-ish. proceeds
this structure would work in your case too:
thus proceeds the (bake you cake)-ish way
Hope this is helpfull. If you want a more complete description of my
relativising circumfix, click this link
<http://idrani.perastar.com/idrani/ISMS_morphology.htm#PTrel>.
Thanks.
T. Pehrson
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