There are 10 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Dscript for conlangers
From: Charles W Brickner
1.2. Re: Dscript for conlangers
From: Padraic Brown
1.3. Re: Dscript for conlangers
From: David Peterson
1.4. Re: Dscript for conlangers
From: Matthew DeBlock
1.5. In the Land of Invented Languages (was: Dscript for conlangers)
From: R A Brown
2.1. Re: Speedtalks and briefscripts (was: Hemingway story
From: Logan Kearsley
3a. Re: 3rd person pronouns
From: neo gu
3b. Re: 3rd person pronouns
From: MorphemeAddict
3c. Re: 3rd person pronouns
From: Basilius
4. Word Creation Links
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1.1. Re: Dscript for conlangers
Posted by: "Charles W Brickner" tepeyach...@embarqmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:22 am ((PDT))
I typed "Livagian writing" and found those hits. Your sentence simply
said, "...'Livagian writing' doesn't yield any hits..." No mention of
images of scripts. Sorry, I misunderstood your statement. The only reason
I checked was because I find search engines fascinating.
Charlie
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
Behalf Of Michael Everson
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:02 AM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Dscript for conlangers
On 24 Jul 2012, at 15:36, Charles W Brickner wrote:
>> By the way "Livagian writing" doesn't yield any hits on Google.
>
> I found 978.
With quotation marks I get 3, and even without, none of them are images of
this script.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (44)
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1.2. Re: Dscript for conlangers
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:07 am ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 7/24/12, R A Brown <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote:
> On 24/07/2012 15:50, And Rosta wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Aha, it does indeed. Arika writes: "The dating of
> > languages in the Internet age gets even more
> complicated.
> > The years given for most of the languages I list from
> > 1990 on represent (approximately) the first posting
> about
> > the language on the web, in a newsgroup, or on a site
> > dedicated to the language." So 1991 is bang on --
> > impressively so, indeed.
>
> She is not consistent in her criteria; she admits that
> Tolkien worked on his languages for forty years before 1955,
> but gives that date for Quenya & Sindarin because that's
> the date of the publication of the third part of LotR with
> its appendices. Yet (some) Internet languages are
> given a date when they are first mentioned on a list are
> still only a germ of a language.
That's dumb. This is like saying DNA didn't exist until a couple blokes
wrote a paper about it! Just pick your criteria, ensure they make sense,
and stick with them for all languages.
Then, I suppose, we could all argue about whether those criteria are
useful or not! It might be more helpful to distingtuish date of inception
and then date of maturity / completion / publication.
Padraic
> -- Ray
Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
1.3. Re: Dscript for conlangers
Posted by: "David Peterson" deda...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:14 pm ((PDT))
On Jul 24, 2012, at 9:36 AM, R A Brown wrote:
> But no mention of BrSc :(
>
> Actually bits of BrSc, Bax and Brx had appeared on the Net well before her
> book was published. Ah well, I'm in good company - two conlangs that I like,
> Claudio Gnoli's "Liva" (1997) and Maurizio Gavioli's "Kinya" (I can't find
> the date for this but it was certainly before 2003) are not included in her
> list. I don't mind being in their company :)
This is, I think, an artifact of Okrent being more keyed in on the historical
aspect of conlanging. My impression that the online conlanging community (as
it's existed since the early 90s) was something of a new discovery for her
after she'd already planned out and researched her book, and she wasn't ready
to evaluate it on its own terms. As a result, there are a number of bizarre
omissions and commissions present in the book (e.g. on the inclusion of my
first conlang, Megdevi, and no others, she'd said she reasoned it was my most
well-known languagesomething that wasn't true as early as 2004, I'd say). That
said, I think it was nice that *any* modern conlangs were included at all. It
would have been a full book without delving into the online conlanging
phenomenon, and hopefully those interested in any of the modern inclusions will
find their way to the Conlang-L or something else connected via Google.
David Peterson
LCS President
presid...@conlang.org
www.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (44)
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1.4. Re: Dscript for conlangers
Posted by: "Matthew DeBlock" vas...@dscript.ca
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:31 pm ((PDT))
I find this point very interesting.
While I am not an academic (as I'm sure many have guessed from my wording and
typos), it seems to me the scientific community has a pretty good standard
already, and it is perfectly applicable.
"proof of existence" is established when documentation detailing how to
reproduce the experiment is made public.
I could mention I have a solution for cold fusion.. But I'm still working on
it.. and when someone else publishes a report just reverse engineer and claim
thats what I was doing. Even better would be if I laid out vague notion of how
it might work.
But how would I prove that the other inventor didnt just reverse engineer my
notions... I cant.
This is why I released Dscript so many years into the project.
I feared if I laid out the principles I have developed too early (before having
documention and materials to present) then it was highly likley someone would
make slight modification to my principles, beat me to publishing documentation,
and steal credit.
Now this fear, I am finding was unfounded, and I can best summarize it with the
quote(forgot source)"dont worry abot people stealing your ideas, if its an
innovative idea you will have to ram it down their throats"
My point being, by publishing what you have put here, you have effectivly
"given up", and are hereby apealing to the masses to extract value or aid in
development. anything further is no longer "your invention", but a
collaboration at best.
I dont see the point of arguing over "time of inception"... there is clearly no
public record to support any claim earlier than the day you published the
picture in this thread.(I noticed a date on the image for 2011, but I dont see
a way to verify that on googledocs)
more, the pic proves nothing, there is no description or documentation to go
with them. they appear to have potential pehaps, but if you want credit for
that you are gonna have clearly define their application principles as well.
I could argue Dscripts inception was back before 2000, but what would be the
point, I presented my materials in 2010 and thats all that matters.(only
recently did I discover the conlanging community.. back then I presented in
RPG/game dev/artistic circles)
I think something key here is that alot of people mistake an "intuition" or
"general concept" as "invention"...
but by that same logic, I am the inventor of time-travel, FTL, and wormhole
technology.. trust me.. I got it figured out in my head.... what do "details"
or "documentation" matter right?
--- On Tue, 7/24/12, R A Brown <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote:
> On 24/07/2012 15:50, And Rosta wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Aha, it does indeed. Arika writes: "The dating of
> > languages in the Internet age gets even more
> complicated.
> > The years given for most of the languages I list from
> > 1990 on represent (approximately) the first posting
> about
> > the language on the web, in a newsgroup, or on a site
> > dedicated to the language." So 1991 is bang on --
> > impressively so, indeed.
>
> She is not consistent in her criteria; she admits that
> Tolkien worked on his languages for forty years before 1955,
> but gives that date for Quenya & Sindarin because that's
> the date of the publication of the third part of LotR with
> its appendices. Yet (some) Internet languages are
> given a date when they are first mentioned on a list are
> still only a germ of a language.
That's dumb. This is like saying DNA didn't exist until a couple blokes
wrote a paper about it! Just pick your criteria, ensure they make sense,
and stick with them for all languages.
Then, I suppose, we could all argue about whether those criteria are
useful or not! It might be more helpful to distingtuish date of inception
and then date of maturity / completion / publication.
Padraic
> -- Ray
Messages in this topic (44)
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1.5. In the Land of Invented Languages (was: Dscript for conlangers)
Posted by: "R A Brown" r...@carolandray.plus.com
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:57 am ((PDT))
On 24/07/2012 20:14, David Peterson wrote:
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 9:36 AM, R A Brown wrote:
>
>> But no mention of BrSc :(
>>
>> Actually bits of BrSc, Bax and Brx had appeared on the
>> Net well before her book was published. Ah well, I'm
>> in good company - two conlangs that I like, Claudio
>> Gnoli's "Liva" (1997) and Maurizio Gavioli's "Kinya"
>> (I can't find the date for this but it was certainly
>> before 2003) are not included in her list. I don't
>> mind being in their company :)
>
> This is, I think, an artifact of Okrent being more keyed
> in on the historical aspect of conlanging. My impression
> that the online conlanging community (as it's existed
> since the early 90s) was something of a new discovery
> for her after she'd already planned out and researched
> her book, and she wasn't ready to evaluate it on its own
> terms. As a result, there are a number of bizarre
> omissions and commissions present in the book
There are indeed. However, it does seem to me that if she
insists - quite rightly IMO - on actual publication in the
case of old style books, the same criterion should be used
for the web, i.e. actual publication of the language on a
website.
I notice that And correctly referred to Livagian being
publicated in 1991, not published. There are some fine
Conlangs published on the web which do not get mentioned; I
just give two above (tho sadly I find that the Kinya site is
no longer maintained), and their are others.
[snip]
> say). That said, I think it was nice that *any* modern
> conlangs were included at all.
Yes.
> It would have been a full book without delving into the
> online conlanging phenomenon, and hopefully those
> interested in any of the modern inclusions will find
> their way to the Conlang-L or something else connected
> via Google.
Yes.
===========================================================
On 25/07/2012 06:31, Matthew DeBlock wrote:
> I find this point very interesting.
>
> While I am not an academic (as I'm sure many have
> guessed from my wording and typos), it seems to me the
> scientific community has a pretty good standard already,
> and it is perfectly applicable.
>
> "proof of existence" is established when documentation
> detailing how to reproduce the experiment is made
> public.
Yes, proof of a conlang's existence is established when
enough of it is published to be usable, even if in a limited
degree. For example, there a limits to what one can do with
Sindarin or Quenya without coining new words or making
assumptions over missing bits of grammar.
One small point: though I expect her not to have included Dr
Outis' 17th century conlang (because it's fictional), I was
sorry to see no mention of Philippe Labbé's conlang of
1663. It is the earliest attempt I know of at producing a
simplified Latin auxlang and more worthy IMO of mention than
oddities like the Earl of Worcester's "Pasigraphie" and A.
Kircher's "Polygraphia" which she does list for 1663.
But, despite the bizarre omissions and commissions in the
list in Appendix A, I do recommend the book. Arika's
description of her own attempts at learning many of the
languages she considers I found to be very interesting.
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]
Messages in this topic (44)
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________________________________________________________________________
2.1. Re: Speedtalks and briefscripts (was: Hemingway story
Posted by: "Logan Kearsley" chronosur...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:01 pm ((PDT))
On 21 July 2012 15:37, Alex Fink <000...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:17:18 +0100, And Rosta <and.ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Logan Kearsley, On 13/07/2012 00:38:
>>> On 12 July 2012 17:26, Alex Fink<000...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> One could perhaps generalize this so that there aren't just a set of
>>>> disjoint domains and that's that, but rather a tree of domains, with a
>>>> progressively longer form needed to switch to a word whose least common
>>>> ancestor with the current one is farther up the tree. Or a system like
>>>> that but with multiple current topics.
>>>
>>> This is what I call the namespace approach. [...]
>>
>>Alex & Logan, could you each give a couple of examples, so I can better grock
>>what you're getting at? Logan's idea eludes me completely. I think I get
>>Alex's, but it'd be nice to see a sketch of an actual morphological
>>implementation.
>
> Here's an example of how the thing I envisioned might look, a
> quickly-generated example rather than one well thought out in any sense.
> Say that stems of words which fit within the taxonomy are all built of CV
> syllables, with one syllable for each level of the taxonomy. For instance,
> stealing a piece of Wilkins' taxonomy (though not his forms) (why is _An
> Essay towards a Real Character and a Philosophical Language_ not on Project
> Gutenberg?), a part of the tree might be this, with leaf nodes starred:
> - /zi/ mammals
> - /zita/ canids
> * /zitaba/ domestic dog
> * /zitabe/ wolf
> - /zika/ felids
> * /zikabe/ lion
> - /pi/ stones
> - /pido/ vulgar stones
> * /pidobe/ slate
>
> Then the system would work thus: there is a pointer to some location (some
> node whose children are leaves, say) in the tree, marking the subject matter
> of the latest conversation, and words could be abbreviated to only the suffix
> which differs from the pointer. (Restrict / decorate as needed for
> self-segregation etc. Also I've left out the machinery for setting the
> pointer.) So if the pointer was at the 'canids' node then /be/ would be
> 'wolf', /kabe/ would be 'lion', /pidobe/ would be 'slate'. /be/ could be
> either of the latter two if the pointer were appropriately placed elsewhere.
> Etc.
>
> Logan's example is closer than mine (Wilkins') to what a tree actually
> optimized for this use would look like, except that I wouldn't insist that
> the suffix "stellar" in one subtree have even metaphorical relation to the
> suffix "stellar" in another subtree (though all the better for ease of
> learning when it can).
Oh, I wouldn't *insist* it either, but in English it happens that that
word *does* have a metaphorical connection, and that's nice wherever
possible. In a natural language, it seems like that would be a common
means of coining new words- take and existing word and simply define
it in a new namespace as a metaphorical extension of the original
meaning.
> I can't tell if Logan's is a tree with depth more than one, but it would
> help in mine: a word like "theory (as per the scientific method)" could be a
> leaf of a note which was parent to nodes for the terminology of particular
> sciences.
To maintain perfect correspondence with the programming-language
inspiration, it should be a tree; indeed, the interpretation of
namespace-words themselves would depend on what higher namespace they
were being used in. However, I suspect that would get ridiculously
confusing and hard-to-follow, and potentially lead to even more
misunderstanding rather than less if people lose track not only of
what content words mean, but of what the namespaces that disambiguate
them are supposed to mean! So, my intended implementation is that
there may be namespace-words that designate a hierarchy of
subcomponents (like SCIENCE -> BIOLOGY) semantically, but
grammatically/syntactically they just form a single level, and the
statement of a namespace complete overwrites any namespaces stated
higher in the syntax tree. To simplify things, however, the semantic
hierarchy could include the understanding that, say, BIOLOGY includes
all of the definitions in SCIENCE that aren't explicitly overwritten
by BIOLOGY.
-l.
Messages in this topic (152)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: 3rd person pronouns
Posted by: "neo gu" qiihos...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:25 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:35:11 -0000, A. da Mek <a.da_m...@ufoni.cz> wrote:
>> I'm using index pronouns/determiners. The way they work is thfey're first
>> used as determiners modifying specific indefinite phrases, then as
>> pronouns referring to the same entity. Example:
>>
>>cu vida bo doagu. ba blanka. "I saw a dog. It was white."
>>
>>The index b- is assigned to the dog.
>
>How many of them you have?
Only a few, at present.
> Or maybe any one-consonat root is a pronoun/determiner?
No, but I'll have to see if that can be made to work.
> This would be an interesting language for a race with
> good memory, able to rememember a score of last used substantives.
and thanks for the long example! As a result I think I'll do 2 things:
1. take the indexes out of my human language C1 and
2. increase the number of indexes in my alien language KL-5 (and probably the
number of consonants), while reusing the ideas I had for C1 there.
I'll still have to figure out the 3rd person pronouns for C1.
>1:1 In the beginning BO God created GO heaven and DO earth.
>
>1:2 And DA was without form, and void; and HO darkness was upon
>WO face of the deep. And the Spirit of BA moved upon WA of ZO
>waters.
>
>1:3 And BA said, Let there be KHO light: and there was KHA.
>
>1:4 And BA saw KHA, that it was good: and BA divided KHA
>from HA.
>
>1:5 And BA called KHA TTO Day, and HA BA called JO Night.
>And KO evening and LO morning were first TTA.
>
>1:6 And BA said, Let there be MO firmament in the midst of ZA,
>and let it divide ZA from ZA.
>
>1:7 And BA made KA, and divided ZA which were
>under KA from ZA which were above KA:
>and it was so.
>
>1:8 And BA called KA GA. And KA and LA were the second TTA.
>
>1:9 And BA said, Let ZA under GA be gathered together
>unto one place, and let NO dry land NE appear: and it was so.
>
>1:10 And BA called NA DA; and the gathering together of
>ZA called BA SO Seas: and BA saw that it was good.
>
>1:11 And BA said, Let DA bring forth GHO grass, CO herb yielding
>seed CE, and QO fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is
>in itself QE, upon DA: and it was so.
>
>1:12 And DA brought forth GHA, and CA, and QA: and BA saw that it was good.
>
>1:13 And KA and LA were third TTA.
>
>1:14 And BA said, Let there be KHAs in MA of GA
>to divide TTA from JA; and let KHAs be for signs, and for
>seasons, and for TTAs, and years: 1:15 And let KHAs be for KHAs in
>MA of GA to give KHA upon DA: and it was
>so.
>
>1:16 And BA made two great KHAs; the greater KHA to rule TTA,
>and the lesser KHA to rule JA: he made RO stars also.
>
>1:17 And BA set KHAs in MA of GA to give KHA
>upon DA,
>
>1:18 And to rule over TTA and over JA, and
>to divide KHA from HA: and BA saw that it was good.
>
>1:19 And KA and LA were fourth TTA.
>
>1:20 And BA said, Let ZA bring forth abundantly moving
>SHO creature that hath life, and TO fowl that may fly above DA in the
>open MA of GA.
>
>1:21 And BA created great whales, and every living SHA that
>moveth, which ZAs brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
>and every winged TA after his kind: and BA saw that it was good.
>
>1:22 And BA blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill
>ZAs in Sos, and let TA multiply in DA.
>
>1:23 And KA and LA were fifth TTA.
>
>1:24 And BA said, Let DA bring forth the living SHA after
>his kind, GO cattle, and creeping HO thing, and KHO beast of DA after his
>kind: and it was so.
>
>1:25 And BA made KHA of DA after his kind, and GA
>after their kind, and every HA that creepeth upon DA after
>his kind: and BA saw that it was good.
>
>1:26 And BA said, Let us make JO man in BA's MO image, after BA's NO
>likeness:
>and let JOs have GHO dominion over RO fish of SA, and over TA
>of SHO air, and over GA, and over all DA, and over
>every creeping HA that creepeth upon DA.
>
>1:27 So BA created JA in BA's own MA, in MA of BA created
>BA JA; male and female created BA JAs.
>
>1:28 And BA blessed JAs, and BA said unto JAs, Be fruitful, and
>multiply, and replenish DA, and subdue DA: and have GHA
>over the RA of SA, and over TA of SHA, and over every
>living HA that moveth upon DA.
>
>1:29 And BA said, Behold, I have given you every CA,
>which is upon WA of all DA, and every QA; to you it shall be for meat.
>
>1:30 And to every KHA of DA, and to every TA of SHA,
>and to every HA that creepeth upon DA, wherein there is
>life, I have given every CA for meat: and it was so.
>
>1:31 And BA saw every HA that he had made, and, behold, it was
>very good. And KA and LA were sixth TTA.
Messages in this topic (7)
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3b. Re: 3rd person pronouns
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:53 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:35 AM, A. da Mek <a.da_m...@ufoni.cz> wrote:
> I'm using index pronouns/determiners. The way they work is thfey're first
>> used as determiners modifying specific indefinite phrases, then as pronouns
>> referring to the same entity. Example:
>>
>>
>> cu vida bo doagu. ba blanka. "I saw a dog. It was white."
>>
>> The index b- is assigned to the dog.
>>
>
> How many of them you have? Or maybe any one-consonat root is a
> pronoun/determiner? This would be an interesting language for a race with
> good memory, able to rememember a score of last used substantives.
>
1:1 In the beginning BO God created GO heaven and DO earth.
>
> 1:2 And DA was without form, and void; and HO darkness was upon
> WO face of the deep. And the Spirit of BA moved upon WA of ZO
> waters.
>
> 1:3 And BA said, Let there be KHO light: and there was KHA.
>
> 1:4 And BA saw KHA, that it was good: and BA divided KHA
> from HA.
>
> 1:5 And BA called KHA TTO Day, and HA BA called JO Night.
> And KO evening and LO morning were first TTA.
>
> 1:6 And BA said, Let there be MO firmament in the midst of ZA,
> and let it divide ZA from ZA.
>
> 1:7 And BA made KA, and divided ZA which were
> under KA from ZA which were above KA:
> and it was so.
>
> 1:8 And BA called KA GA. And KA and LA were the second TTA.
>
> 1:9 And BA said, Let ZA under GA be gathered together
> unto one place, and let NO dry land NE appear: and it was so.
>
> 1:10 And BA called NA DA; and the gathering together of
> ZA called BA SO Seas: and BA saw that it was good.
>
> 1:11 And BA said, Let DA bring forth GHO grass, CO herb yielding
> seed CE, and QO fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is
> in itself QE, upon DA: and it was so.
>
> 1:12 And DA brought forth GHA, and CA, and QA: and BA saw that it was good.
>
> 1:13 And KA and LA were third TTA.
>
> 1:14 And BA said, Let there be KHAs in MA of GA
> to divide TTA from JA; and let KHAs be for signs, and for
> seasons, and for TTAs, and years: 1:15 And let KHAs be for KHAs in
> MA of GA to give KHA upon DA: and it was
> so.
>
> 1:16 And BA made two great KHAs; the greater KHA to rule TTA,
> and the lesser KHA to rule JA: he made RO stars also.
>
> 1:17 And BA set KHAs in MA of GA to give KHA
> upon DA,
>
> 1:18 And to rule over TTA and over JA, and
> to divide KHA from HA: and BA saw that it was good.
>
> 1:19 And KA and LA were fourth TTA.
>
> 1:20 And BA said, Let ZA bring forth abundantly moving
> SHO creature that hath life, and TO fowl that may fly above DA in the
> open MA of GA.
>
> 1:21 And BA created great whales, and every living SHA that
> moveth, which ZAs brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
> and every winged TA after his kind: and BA saw that it was good.
>
> 1:22 And BA blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill
> ZAs in Sos, and let TA multiply in DA.
>
> 1:23 And KA and LA were fifth TTA.
>
> 1:24 And BA said, Let DA bring forth the living SHA after
> his kind, GO cattle, and creeping HO thing, and KHO beast of DA after his
> kind: and it was so.
>
> 1:25 And BA made KHA of DA after his kind, and GA
> after their kind, and every HA that creepeth upon DA after
> his kind: and BA saw that it was good.
>
> 1:26 And BA said, Let us make JO man in BA's MO image, after BA's NO
> likeness:
> and let JOs have GHO dominion over RO fish of SA, and over TA
> of SHO air, and over GA, and over all DA, and over
> every creeping HA that creepeth upon DA.
>
> 1:27 So BA created JA in BA's own MA, in MA of BA created
> BA JA; male and female created BA JAs.
>
> 1:28 And BA blessed JAs, and BA said unto JAs, Be fruitful, and
> multiply, and replenish DA, and subdue DA: and have GHA
> over the RA of SA, and over TA of SHA, and over every
> living HA that moveth upon DA.
>
> 1:29 And BA said, Behold, I have given you every CA,
> which is upon WA of all DA, and every QA; to you it shall be for meat.
>
> 1:30 And to every KHA of DA, and to every TA of SHA,
> and to every HA that creepeth upon DA, wherein there is
> life, I have given every CA for meat: and it was so.
>
> 1:31 And BA saw every HA that he had made, and, behold, it was
> very good. And KA and LA were sixth TTA.
>
I like this example of anaphor/article use.
stevo
Messages in this topic (7)
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3c. Re: 3rd person pronouns
Posted by: "Basilius" vecher...@yandex.ru
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:30 am ((PDT))
How do you choose the determiner for 'a dog'? Can't you apply the same
principle to the determiner in a definite NP like 'the waiter'? Or maybe just
to the anaphorics that refer to it? (In the latter case, the selective
principle itself might moderate the potential ambiguity about as effectively as
the explicit agreement of determiners you're using with indefinite antecedents).
- Basilius
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:33:14 -0400, neo gu wrote:
>In my latest sketch, I'm using index pronouns/determiners. The way they work
>is they're first used as determiners modifying specific indefinite phrases,
>then as pronouns referring to the same entity. Example:
>
>cu vida bo doagu. ba blanka. "I saw a dog. It was white."
>
>The index b- is assigned to the dog. So far so good.
>
>The problem is that sometimes definite references to entities occur without a
>preceding indefinite introduction, so there's no way to refer to them using
>indexes. Example:
>
>"I went to a restaurant. The waiter didn't speak English. / What did he speak?"
>
>Do I need to have conventional 3rd person pronouns as well, or is there some
>other solution? I thought of one but it's sort of clumsy.
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. Word Creation Links
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:34 am ((PDT))
I thought this likst of links could be of use to you. The unique names list is
a great tool.
Nicole Thompson-Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Emerging poet
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
----- Original Message -----
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
To: about_writing_fict...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [About_Writing_Fiction] Creating Words
I meant to say thanks for the sites.
Nicole Thompson-Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Emerging poet
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
----- Original Message -----
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
To: about_writing_fict...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [About_Writing_Fiction] Creating Words
bsites.
Nicole Thompson-Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Emerging poet
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
----- Original Message -----
From: lindabell...@yahoo.com
To: about_writing_fict...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [About_Writing_Fiction] Creating Words
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/index.html
http://unique-names.com/word-generator.php
http://unique-names.com/word-mixer.php
-------Original Message-------
From: Edward
Date: 7/10/2012 2:38:29 PM
To: about_writing_fict...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [About_Writing_Fiction] Creating Words
I've been thinking about creating words lately. Creating words is
easy but creating a word I like is very difficult. Many years ago, way before I
started writing, I created 1000 new words. Out of those those new words I
didn't even have 100 that I liked. I didn't create more than two dozen that
actually worked for me. And of those two dozen that I like some of them were
usable.
I need it least a dozen more new words for the novel that I'm working
on right now. I know a couple different techniques for coming up with words but
none are any better than any other.
What hurts the most is coming up with the word that works and that I
love the sound of but can't use because it's too close to another word.
Example: I created the word Athari. It's a language that is spoken on another
world. I love the look of it and I love the sound of it. But it looks and
sounds too much like Atari. And I didn't even start with anything close to
"Atari."
The techniques I use to create new words are pretty simple. One is to
take a random word and separate the vowels and consonants and then put them
back together in a different order. The second technique I use is to take a
word and change or delete one letter. The third technique is to listen to
mispronounced words and then try to use them.
I probably use of a couple other techniques that have not really
aware of. How do you create a new word? What's your technique? If you care to
share.
Thanks and smile
Edward
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