There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: BPJ
1.2. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: Charles W Brickner
2a. Re: Numbers from your conlang?
From: janko gorenc
2b. Re: Numbers from your conlang?
From: neo gu
2c. Re: Numbers from your conlang?
From: Anthony Miles
3a. Re: Avantimannish story was Re: [LCS Members] How can I show my conl
From: Padraic Brown
3b. Re: Avantimannish story was Re: [LCS Members] How can I show my conl
From: Roger Mills
4a. Re: RWG - (yet another) random word generator
From: Eric Christopherson
5a. Re: Indie Movie Looking For Language
From: George Corley
6. part of speech term q.
From: neo gu
7a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
From: Henrik Theiling
8. Siye: A Joke In the Market
From: Anthony Miles
9a. Attending WorldCon?
From: David Peterson
9b. Re: Attending WorldCon?
From: John Erickson
10a. Re: A new direction in loglangs?
From: Alex Fink
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1.1. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "BPJ" b...@melroch.se
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:08 am ((PDT))
On 2012-07-31 18:37, Michael Everson wrote:
> On 31 Jul 2012, at 16:43, BPJ wrote:
>
>> I've considered using Greek letters, but if you then need both _b_ and _β_,
>> as I do for Isturjeb, how do you capitalize them?
>
> I'm going my best: http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n4297.pdf
Great! The question is whether readers will go along
with it, and font coverage is always an issue with
HTML/plaintext publication.
BTW I think the cap Chi should be well rounded and not
the slightest angular/boxy at NNW and SSW, like
Lepsius' specimens, to avoid any confusion with X. If
it looks like a widened small χ standing on the base
line then so be it!
On 2012-07-31 19:11, Charles W Brickner wrote:>> From: Constructed
Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf Of BPJ
>
>> I've considered using Greek letters, but if you then need both _b_ and _β_,
>> as I do for Isturjeb, how do you capitalize them? I could abuse _Ɓ/Б_,
>> but would readers really follow me out on that limb? Then _Ƀƀ, Ꝑꝑ_ seem
>> preferable.
>
> I solved that problem many decades ago when I started working with Senjecas.
> I decided that Senjecan orthography would be unicameral. That way I wouldn't
> have to fool with capital letters.
I wish, especially as I used caps as distinct letters
back in typewriter days, and have been using shorthand
without bothering about specially marking proper nouns
for 20+ years, but I've found that people will seldom
go along with it. People who officially write their
names without caps have testified that they
consistently get capitalized anyway!
/bpj -- imagine my shorthand signature here: / looks
like the "b" of Melin's shorthand!
Messages in this topic (40)
________________________________________________________________________
1.2. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "Charles W Brickner" tepeyach...@embarqmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:50 pm ((PDT))
>From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf
>Of BPJ
>People who officially write their names without caps have testified
>that they consistently get capitalized anyway!
I hope e. e. cummings never had that problem!
Charlie
Messages in this topic (40)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Numbers from your conlang?
Posted by: "janko gorenc" j_gor...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:55 am ((PDT))
The first message, Subject: “Numbers
from your conlang(s)”
I sent to conl...@listserv.brown.edu obvious. I thought
it sent to tocthefox...@gmail.com
But I am very settled in, it was a very big
challenge to my subject. Please do not stop, this subject.
If you have a numbers from your
conlang(s) (or you'll have in the future), could you please send them to this
subject in the future!
Thanks for your help!
Janko Gorenc
________________________________
From: R A Brown <r...@carolandray.plus.com>
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Numbers from your conlang?
On 30/07/2012 15:11, G. van der Vegt wrote:
> I think I know what's going on. Janco Gorenc meant to
> send this e-mail off-list to a certain 'Randy', but
> accidentally send it to the list. (As can be seen in his
> e-mail, he addresses it with 'Hey Randy')
I noticed "Hey Randy" - I assumed Janco was recycling a
private email and to send to the list, having forgotten
to remove the opening line.
> Jennifer Collins-Lai then pressed reply to the wrong
> e-mail in the conversation.
>
> At least, that seems to be what is going on here.
Probably so - I guess.
========================================================
On 30/07/2012 15:19, Patrick Dunn wrote:
> Janco is also remarkably persistant and often asks the
> same person for numbers repeatedly through several
> different fora.
Does he? I associate him asking on Conlang every so often
for numbers 1 to 10 etc. But on reflexion I do recall a
private email from him asking for numbers in my conlang
Eteocretan ;)
If only I knew the Eteocretan numbers for 1 to 10 I would
gladly have sent them - but, alas, I don't. That's the
trouble with natlangs, you can't make the missing bits up.
=========================================================
On 31/07/2012 00:11, Jennifer Collins-Jai wrote:
> Oh man... I'm really embarrassed now. @/////@
Don't worry - many of us, I suspect, have sent replies to
the wrong person in our time - I know I have; and it wasn't
so very long ago I embarrassed myself on this list by doing
something similar.
==========================================================
On 30/07/2012 23:07, Padraic Brown wrote:
[snip]
>
> He is a consummate collector, a veritable juggernaut --
> never stopping, never resting, never ceasing from the
> hunt of a new set of conlang numbers!
Yep - that's our Janco :)
[snip]
>
> I'm sure I'll owe him the set of Avantimannish numbers
> soon enough, once I can find out what four through ten
> are...
Umm - yes, maybe I'd better address myself to Bax/Brx (or
whatever name it finishes up with) and get those pesky
numbers ready ......
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Numbers from your conlang?
Posted by: "neo gu" qiihos...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:33 pm ((PDT))
from K'tle^
1 al
2 le^
3 t'met
4 p'et
5 zcet
6 tom
7 xnet
8 pi'
9 k'het
10 zek
11 zkal
12 tomle^
13 xinho
14 xin
15 xnal
16 pi'le^
17 kofo
18 koh
19 k'hal
20 zkle^
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Numbers from your conlang?
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" mamercu...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:47 pm ((PDT))
So far, for Siye I've only got 0-5 (assuming it isn't base 5, like many
counting systems). The deep level interactions, including syntactical and
pronominal borrowing, with Ulok make matters much more complicated.
0 uku ['u.xu]
1 tum [t_sU~]
2 so [so]
3 seka ['Se.x_Sa]
4 nita ['ni.ta]
5 ko [xo]
'Ko' is also the word for hand, because these Martian are very humanoid (do
they lay eggs? I don't know)
The slang word for 'virgin' is 'nitanu', etymologically '4 nu', because the
proper word is a nominalized participle 'nununuki' (passive) or 'nununuyam'
(active).
nu-nu-ne-u-yam
verb-directional-aspect-negative-nominalizer
Technically, 'nununuyam' should become 'sekanu' '3-nu', but 'nitanu' refers
both to the absolute number of syllables and the repetition of 'nu', as well as
alliterating.
Messages in this topic (22)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Avantimannish story was Re: [LCS Members] How can I show my conl
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:36 pm ((PDT))
--- On Mon, 7/30/12, Adam Walker <carra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BRAVO! I was laughing so hard I could barely read.
Thanks! Twas to fun to write and fun to read. I think this language has
a natural rhythm to it.
> Maytagge indeed! Cuiqe ho liqe! Ho ho! Adam
(:
Padraic
>
> On 7/30/12, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > --- On Mon, 7/30/12, Thomas Ruhm <tho...@ruhm.at>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Can I have more texts in Avantamannish? It is for
> practicing reading
> >> almost understandable languages.
> >
> > Alright! Here's an Avantimannish quasi-folktale. It's
> based on a real
> > episode, but the telling and retelling of such a
> fabulous tale has given it
> > something of a life of its own.
> >
> > They Thrêy Mês
> >
> > On fornes waron thês thrêy blinden mês, ande market
> huw they dydetun
> > omhemrene thês thrêy blinden mês! Nuw therh thon
> layne then under thon
> > wayne ande on thon cutischen te bote! Ande twas thaar
> they sêhen
> > merveyelles thês thrêy blinden mês. For yn that
> cutiscen botwef Cgeolien
> > cutiscete ande thaar ho wascqete ande duwemcraftihh was
> her cutiscend
> > ande duwemcraftihh was her wascqend of botwef
> Cgeolien.
> >
> > Nuw botwef Cgeolien was wifez te husbowend Sôlhaz se
> Mylwarthaz ande they
> > buwetun om Yppsihdale. Ande nuw cwemand thôs thrêy
> blinden mês
> > onhemrennend on thon cutiscen but they hemselfe
> stoppetun en wiscund
> > brouwdeth beforon te this cat that hehôte Galgumel his
> scarpe clêyô! Nuw
> > this Galgumel was en cyuwte, wiscraftihh cats but with
> happe wase he under
> > slepand; swo underhembehydetun thôz thrêy blinden
> mês yn thon pondarien
> > under summe Roumisce canaste. Ande twas fram that
> plâze they sêhen
> > merveylles, they thrêy blinden mês.
> >
> > For thas times yn cwâme botwef Cgeolien ombeberend
> thon hlavandmund yn her
> > armes. For hwilam hit herselfe lîqete te hwessellen
> hwiles that ho west
> > werkend; ande swo ho hwessellete this murih-morih
> tônde, thrêy swôyen hwat
> > murnen of wenten ande douwthe. Ras-peh-bah —
> ras-peh-bah ho hwessellete
> > ande — hwaq! — thonqete her canefez swo ho scrapete
> thon tuwlgowe.
> > Ras-peh-bah — ras-peh-bah — hwaq! Ande hit
> mahhtylihh feyrete thêm mês,
> > but senhhe Galgumel, he swefnete om delyciouso mês!
> >
> > Cwiqes ho liqete thon canefe ande omherwewôrthe te
> thon hlavandmund. For
> > hwilam hit herselfe lîqete te hwessellen hwiles that
> ho west werkend; ande
> > swo ho hwessellete this murih-morih tônde, thrêy
> swôyen hwat murnen of
> > wenten ande douwthe. Ras-tam-car — ras-tam-car ho
> hwessellete ande — hwap!
> > — ho clangete do se maytagges dorôn. Hit
> yngane te tansce ande senge —
> > scuggabuubbascuggabuubba — ande theys mêsô
> wiscundum dydetun ouwtstande
> > fram theys lêqes, ande they sêhen summe
> duwemmerglouwend! Ande hit
> > mahhtylihh feyte thêm mês, but senhhe Galgumel, he
> swefnete om bouwles of
> > swete meluqe!
> >
> > Ande la! se forne brâmaz yngane te tansce, suwôpend
> thêm thrêy blinde mês
> > uwt fram thon pondarien ande thaar thêy sêhen
> merveyelles! For sange
> > scuggabuubbascuggabuubba that maytagge, ande tanscete
> en brauwle that
> > brâmaz ande adounfluhen allez thôz plattes thêz
> spênes yaan yâht
> > wascqcalethes summe fethuwor miscgmaken stôqes te
> cgeoyne thon drauwgme
> > with en forn trouwlez on touwe. Then spunen they
> qerfund canifes te tansce
> > yn thona êrem ofer thon murih drauwgme, hwessellend on
> rôndel theys
> > murih-morih tônde, summe swôyen hwat murnen of wenten
> ande douwthe.
> > Ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car — ras-peh-bah —
> ras-tam-car.
> >
> > And la! hwan that yerme Galgumel cunnete ande
> underhimbehyde under thon
> > mense, se fornen brâmaz him suwatte te hys fundamund,
> ande he himselfe rane
> > griend te therh thon yarden, ande besâhhtun yerme
> Galgumel they scarpe,
> > morthenfulle qerfund canifes; ande befluhen they thrêy
> blinden mês uwt fram
> > that cutiscen swo cwiqe swo mahtun . . .
> >
> > But la! he uwtgegange se tuwlgowecaniftez, hwa flêsce
> havet taxet, ande
> > scassete thôz yermen blinden mês, ande market nuw huw
> they doend omhemrene
> > thês thrêy blinden mês! For he sengat this
> murih-morih tônde, summe swôyen
> > hwat murnen on rôndel of wenten ande douwthe.
> Ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car —
> > ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car.
> >
> > Thrêy blinden mês, thrêy blinden mês —
> > Botwef Cgeolien, botwef Cgeolien
> —
> > Mylwarth’ zande
> his murih wîf'
> > Scrap’te thon
> tuwlgowe; liq’te thon ‘nîf —
> > Botwef Cgeolien, botwef Cgeolien
> —
> > Thrêy blinden mês, thrêy blinden mês!
> >
> > ==================
> >
> > In ancientry were these three blind mice, and see how
> they did run, those
> > three blind mice! Now, through the lane then under the
> wain and into the
> > kitchen to boot! And twas there they saw wonders, those
> three blind mice.
> > For in that kitchen goodwife Julienne cooked and there
> she washed and
> > magic were her cooking and magic was her washing of
> goodwife Julienne.
> >
> >
> > Now goodwife Julienne was wife to husband Sulcus the
> Miller and they lived
> > in Yppsiy Dale. And now came those three blind mice
> running about into
> > the kitchen but they themselves stopped a whisker
> breadth before to this
> > cat that hight Gargamel his sharp claws! Now this
> Gargamel was a cute,
> > wisecrafty cat but with luck was he within sleeping; so
> away-them-hid those
> > three blind mice in the pantry within some Rumeliard
> basket. And twas from
> > that place they saw wonders, those three blind mice.
> >
> >
> > For at that time in came goodwife Julienne on-carrying
> the wash in her
> > arms. For at times (!) it her pleased to whistle while
> that she was
> > working; and so she whistled this merry-mort(*) tune,
> three soughing
> > (notes) that mourned (recalled with melancholy) of
> winter and death.
> > UT-SI-LA --- UT-SI-LA she whistled and --- whack! ---
> thunked her knife
> > as she scraped the suet. UT-SI-LA --- UT-SI-LA ---
> WHACK! And it greatly
> > feared those mice, but old Gargamel, he dreamed of
> delicious mice!
> >
> >
> > Shortly she licked the knife and to-her-turned to the
> washing. For at times
> > it her pleased to whistle while that she was working;
> and so she whistled
> > this merry-mort tune, three soughing tones that mourned
> of winter and
> > death. UT-RE-MI --- UT-RE-MI she whistled and --- whap!
> --- she clanged-to
> > the washer's door. It began to dance and sing ---
> chuggabuubbachuggabuubba
> > --- and the mice's whiskers did out-stand from their
> bodies, and they
> > saw this magic glow! And it greatly feared the mice,
> but old Gargamel, he
> > dreamed of bowls of sweet milk!
> >
> > And lo! the old broom began to dance, sweeping those
> three blind mice out
> > from the pantry and there they saw marvels! For sang
> > chuggabuubbachuggabuubba the washer, and danced a brawl
> that broom and down
> > flew all those plates these spoons yon eight washcloths
> and some four
> > mismatched stockings to join the music with an old
> trowel in tow. Then
> > spun the carving knives to dance in the airs over the
> merry music,
> > whistling in round their merry-mort tune, some soughing
> notes that mourned
> > of winter and death. UT-SI-LA --- UT-RE-MI --- UT-SI-LA
> --- UT-RE-MI.
> >
> > And lo! when that poor Gargamel tried and
> under-him-hide under the table,
> > the old broom him swatted to his bum, and he him ran
> howling to through
> > the garden, and besought poor Gargamel the sharp,
> murdersome carving
> > knives; and beflew the three blind mice out from that
> kitchen as quick as
> > they could . . .
> >
> >
> > But lo! he out-went the suet-knife, who flesh has
> tasted, and chased those
> > poor blind mice, and mark now how they do run about,
> those three blind
> > mice! For he sings this merry-mort tune, some soughing
> notes that mourn in
> > roundelay of winter and death. UT-SI-LA --- UT-RE-MI
> --- UT-SI-LA ---
> > UT-RE-MI.
> >
> >
> > Three blind mice, three blind mice -
> > Goodwife Julienne, goodwife Julienne
> -
> > Miller and his
> merry wife
> > Scraped the fat
> and licked the knife -
> > Goodwife Julienne, goodwife Julienne
> -
> > Three blind mice, three blind mice!
> >
> > There, that ought to hold you for a while!
> >
> > Oh: (*) a "murih-morih" is something of an oxymoron, a
> tune that is both
> > merry and sad, perhaps in a minor key. It may be sung
> gaily, but its words
> > speak of violence, loss, death.
> >
> > Padraic
> >
> >
>
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Avantimannish story was Re: [LCS Members] How can I show my conl
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:05 pm ((PDT))
That is wickedly funny; I could almost read most of it :-))))) Keep 'em
coming.....
--- On Mon, 7/30/12, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Avantimannish story was Re: [LCS Members] How can I show my conlangs
to other people?
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Date: Monday, July 30, 2012, 10:08 PM
--- On Mon, 7/30/12, Thomas Ruhm <tho...@ruhm.at> wrote:
> Can I have more texts in Avantamannish? It is for practicing reading
> almost understandable languages.
Alright! Here's an Avantimannish quasi-folktale. It's based on a real
episode, but the telling and retelling of such a fabulous tale has given it
something of a life of its own.
They Thrêy Mês
On fornes waron thês thrêy blinden mês, ande market huw they dydetun
omhemrene thês thrêy blinden mês! Nuw therh thon layne then under thon
wayne ande on thon cutischen te bote! Ande twas thaar they sêhen
merveyelles thês thrêy blinden mês. For yn that cutiscen botwef Cgeolien
cutiscete ande thaar ho wascqete ande duwemcraftihh was her cutiscend
ande duwemcraftihh was her wascqend of botwef Cgeolien.
Nuw botwef Cgeolien was wifez te husbowend Sôlhaz se Mylwarthaz ande they
buwetun om Yppsihdale. Ande nuw cwemand thôs thrêy blinden mês
onhemrennend on thon cutiscen but they hemselfe stoppetun en wiscund
brouwdeth beforon te this cat that hehôte Galgumel his scarpe clêyô! Nuw
this Galgumel was en cyuwte, wiscraftihh cats but with happe wase he under
slepand; swo underhembehydetun thôz thrêy blinden mês yn thon pondarien
under summe Roumisce canaste. Ande twas fram that plâze they sêhen
merveylles, they thrêy blinden mês.
For thas times yn cwâme botwef Cgeolien ombeberend thon hlavandmund yn her
armes. For hwilam hit herselfe lîqete te hwessellen hwiles that ho west
werkend; ande swo ho hwessellete this murih-morih tônde, thrêy swôyen hwat
murnen of wenten ande douwthe. Ras-peh-bah — ras-peh-bah ho hwessellete
ande — hwaq! — thonqete her canefez swo ho scrapete thon tuwlgowe.
Ras-peh-bah — ras-peh-bah — hwaq! Ande hit mahhtylihh feyrete thêm mês,
but senhhe Galgumel, he swefnete om delyciouso mês!
Cwiqes ho liqete thon canefe ande omherwewôrthe te thon hlavandmund. For
hwilam hit herselfe lîqete te hwessellen hwiles that ho west werkend; ande
swo ho hwessellete this murih-morih tônde, thrêy swôyen hwat murnen of
wenten ande douwthe. Ras-tam-car — ras-tam-car ho hwessellete ande — hwap!
— ho clangete do se maytagges dorôn. Hit yngane te tansce ande senge —
scuggabuubbascuggabuubba — ande theys mêsô wiscundum dydetun ouwtstande
fram theys lêqes, ande they sêhen summe duwemmerglouwend! Ande hit
mahhtylihh feyte thêm mês, but senhhe Galgumel, he swefnete om bouwles of
swete meluqe!
Ande la! se forne brâmaz yngane te tansce, suwôpend thêm thrêy blinde mês
uwt fram thon pondarien ande thaar thêy sêhen merveyelles! For sange
scuggabuubbascuggabuubba that maytagge, ande tanscete en brauwle that
brâmaz ande adounfluhen allez thôz plattes thêz spênes yaan yâht
wascqcalethes summe fethuwor miscgmaken stôqes te cgeoyne thon drauwgme
with en forn trouwlez on touwe. Then spunen they qerfund canifes te tansce
yn thona êrem ofer thon murih drauwgme, hwessellend on rôndel theys
murih-morih tônde, summe swôyen hwat murnen of wenten ande douwthe.
Ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car — ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car.
And la! hwan that yerme Galgumel cunnete ande underhimbehyde under thon mense,
se fornen brâmaz him suwatte te hys fundamund, ande he himselfe rane griend te
therh thon yarden, ande besâhhtun yerme Galgumel they scarpe, morthenfulle
qerfund canifes; ande befluhen they thrêy blinden mês uwt fram that cutiscen
swo cwiqe swo mahtun . . .
But la! he uwtgegange se tuwlgowecaniftez, hwa flêsce havet taxet, ande
scassete thôz yermen blinden mês, ande market nuw huw they doend omhemrene thês
thrêy blinden mês! For he sengat this murih-morih tônde, summe swôyen hwat
murnen on rôndel of wenten ande douwthe. Ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car —
ras-peh-bah — ras-tam-car.
Thrêy blinden mês, thrêy blinden mês —
Botwef Cgeolien, botwef Cgeolien —
Mylwarth’ zande his murih wîf'
Scrap’te thon tuwlgowe; liq’te thon ‘nîf —
Botwef Cgeolien, botwef Cgeolien —
Thrêy blinden mês, thrêy blinden mês!
==================
In ancientry were these three blind mice, and see how they did run, those
three blind mice! Now, through the lane then under the wain and into the
kitchen to boot! And twas there they saw wonders, those three blind mice.
For in that kitchen goodwife Julienne cooked and there she washed and
magic were her cooking and magic was her washing of goodwife Julienne.
Now goodwife Julienne was wife to husband Sulcus the Miller and they lived
in Yppsiy Dale. And now came those three blind mice running about into
the kitchen but they themselves stopped a whisker breadth before to this
cat that hight Gargamel his sharp claws! Now this Gargamel was a cute,
wisecrafty cat but with luck was he within sleeping; so away-them-hid those
three blind mice in the pantry within some Rumeliard basket. And twas from
that place they saw wonders, those three blind mice.
For at that time in came goodwife Julienne on-carrying the wash in her
arms. For at times (!) it her pleased to whistle while that she was
working; and so she whistled this merry-mort(*) tune, three soughing
(notes) that mourned (recalled with melancholy) of winter and death.
UT-SI-LA --- UT-SI-LA she whistled and --- whack! --- thunked her knife
as she scraped the suet. UT-SI-LA --- UT-SI-LA --- WHACK! And it greatly
feared those mice, but old Gargamel, he dreamed of delicious mice!
Shortly she licked the knife and to-her-turned to the washing. For at times
it her pleased to whistle while that she was working; and so she whistled
this merry-mort tune, three soughing tones that mourned of winter and
death. UT-RE-MI --- UT-RE-MI she whistled and --- whap! --- she clanged-to
the washer's door. It began to dance and sing --- chuggabuubbachuggabuubba
--- and the mice's whiskers did out-stand from their bodies, and they
saw this magic glow! And it greatly feared the mice, but old Gargamel, he
dreamed of bowls of sweet milk!
And lo! the old broom began to dance, sweeping those three blind mice out
from the pantry and there they saw marvels! For sang
chuggabuubbachuggabuubba the washer, and danced a brawl that broom and down
flew all those plates these spoons yon eight washcloths and some four
mismatched stockings to join the music with an old trowel in tow. Then
spun the carving knives to dance in the airs over the merry music,
whistling in round their merry-mort tune, some soughing notes that mourned
of winter and death. UT-SI-LA --- UT-RE-MI --- UT-SI-LA --- UT-RE-MI.
And lo! when that poor Gargamel tried and under-him-hide under the table,
the old broom him swatted to his bum, and he him ran howling to through
the garden, and besought poor Gargamel the sharp, murdersome carving
knives; and beflew the three blind mice out from that kitchen as quick as
they could . . .
But lo! he out-went the suet-knife, who flesh has tasted, and chased those
poor blind mice, and mark now how they do run about, those three blind
mice! For he sings this merry-mort tune, some soughing notes that mourn in
roundelay of winter and death. UT-SI-LA --- UT-RE-MI --- UT-SI-LA --- UT-RE-MI.
Three blind mice, three blind mice -
Goodwife Julienne, goodwife Julienne -
Miller and his merry wife
Scraped the fat and licked the knife -
Goodwife Julienne, goodwife Julienne -
Three blind mice, three blind mice!
There, that ought to hold you for a while!
Oh: (*) a "murih-morih" is something of an oxymoron, a tune that is both
merry and sad, perhaps in a minor key. It may be sung gaily, but its words
speak of violence, loss, death.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (4)
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4a. Re: RWG - (yet another) random word generator
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" ra...@charter.net
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:36 pm ((PDT))
On Jul 30, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Nathan Swan wrote:
> You are all probably tired of these, but I've made another one: a random word
> generator.
>
> It's written in the D programming language, which means it supports Unicode
> fully, but you'll have to get D (dlang.org) to compile.
>
> Hope you like it:
>
> http://nathansoftware.blogspot.com/2012/07/im-happy-to-announce-release-of-rwg-0.html
Cool! I also like an excuse to install a new programming language
implementation.
Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Re: Indie Movie Looking For Language
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:31 pm ((PDT))
Too bad they didn't at least try the LCS.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Logan Kearsley <chronosur...@gmail.com>wrote:
> http://www.wreckamovie.com/tasks/show/2688
>
> They provide the sample dialog that they want translated. There's one
> day left to make proposals, and so far the only thing they've got is a
> guy suggesting they play the dialog backwards.
>
> -l.
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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6. part of speech term q.
Posted by: "neo gu" qiihos...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:52 pm ((PDT))
C1 verb conjugation is divided into 2 orders. The independent order consists of
finite forms inflected for tense or mood (and some other things) and adjunctive
forms also inflected for tense (etc.). The coreferential order consists of the
resultative, depictive, infinitive, and participial forms, which are inflected
for aspect (retrospective, progressive, and prospective). There are also
adpositions marked for the same syntactical funtions as coreferential verbs
(but not aspect; to mark aspect, derived verbs are used).
What I'm wondering is if I should continue calling the adpositions
'adpositions' (or 'postpositions' since the location argument usually precedes
it), or describe them as 'defective verbs'?
Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" h...@theiling.de
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:05 pm ((PDT))
The following is the de facto Conlang-L FAQ, hosted at:
http://wiki.frath.net/Conlang-L_FAQ
This is automatically posted once a month, copied directly from that page,
for the benefit of new members. If you would like to change it, please
edit it at the link above.
**Henrik
==Where to get Conlang-L==
The official archives are at http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html .
>From there, you can search the archives, get an RSS feed, manage your
subscription, etc.
It's also the ONLY place you can go to sign up and post things to the list.
A read-only archive with a nicer user interface is at
http://archives.conlang.info/ . [As of April 2009 this archive has ceased
mirroring new messages. Henrik Theiling knows about the problem and has said
he's planning to fix it but hasn't had time to do so yet.]
Conlang-L is also _mirrored_ as a Yahoo group, but there is no way to have
posts to the Yahoo group sent to the actual list. Do *not* subscribe to the
Yahoo group. It has no admin anymore. Go to
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html instead!
==A brief history of the list==
The list evolved from some informal email conversations among an early group
of language enthusiasts. The earliest mail mirror was run by John Ross out of
the BU physics department, and was up and running by 29 July 1991. It moved to
Denmark on 23 March, 1993.
The original note reads in part:
''By agreement with John Ross, the CONLANG mailing list has been moved to
diku.dk, the mail hub of the CS Department of the University of Copenhagen.
Send all submissions to CONLANG at diku dot dk. The address at buphy still
works, but it is just an alias for the new list.''
''Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dept) (Humour NOT marked)''
(Note that the submission address in that historical note '''NO LONGER
WORKS'''.)
Later, growing traffic and changes at the university necessitated a move. In
January–February of 1997 the list moved to its current home at Brown
University's LISTSERV server. David Durand made the move and actively
moderated the list from that point on.
Before the move, threads centered on debates on the relative merits of
[[auxlang]]s had become common on CONLANG; these were often incendiary and
irritated many listmembers. Accordingly, when the new CONLANG list was set up
at Brown, a sister list AUXLANG was set up to cater to participants of these
threads, and auxlang advocacy was banned from CONLANG. It still is.
(Dispassionate discussion of auxlangs is welcome.)
In ??? John Cowan took over actual moderation duties, as "Lord of the
Instrumentality".
Later the torch was passed to Henrik Theiling.
==List behaviour==
The CONLANG list rejects attachments.
===Posting limits===
As a traffic-limiting measure, if the list receives more than 99 messages in a
given day (in Brown's time zone), all subsequent messages will be
automatically held and not delivered until the admin unblocks the list.
Sometimes, during longer periods of high traffic, a further limit is imposed
restricting each person to five posts a day. ''This restriction is currently
in force.'' Messages beyond the daily limit are simply bounced, not held for
the next day.
Posters are encouraged to consolidate several shorter replies on a single
topic into a single message.
==Subject Topic Tags==
In the subject line of a post, you can mark the post with one of the following
tags. Tags are only recognised if a colon follows immediately: no other
decoration (e.g. brackets, an extra space) should be used. Any 'Re:' etc. is
irrelevant -- the software skips it.
Good tag syntax:
CHAT: Is the world really round?
Bad tag syntax:
[CHAT]: Is the world really round?
These are the official tags the listserv software can be instructed to
filter automatically. There are currently exactly four:
* OT: off-topic stuff
* CHAT: off-topic stuff of the conversational sort
* USAGE: natural language usage (all of the YAEPT and similar should use this)
* THEORY: linguistic theory discussions
Only the above tags are official and configured for filtering. However, most
advanced mail clients can be set to have extra filters, such as for the
following unofficial tags:
* OFFLIST: not actually seen on-list, this tag is added to make explicitly
clear that you are taking a subject offlist (i.e. you're emailing someone
directly about it)
The following are explicitly not included in the list of filterable tags:
* META: threads about CONLANG-L itself
* TECH: technical issues (e.g. email programs, list-related technical
problems, etc)
Finally, there are two meta-tags:
* [CONLANG]: This should not be actually added when starting a new subject;
you can make the listserv prepend it automatically to all email (so that you
can set your mail client to filter all list traffic)
* "was": used to change the subject, or more commonly, to indicate that the
subject of a thread changed a while ago and you're no longer pretending it's
about the original topic
Example:
JAMA says flat earth leads to flat [@] (was CHAT: Is the world really round?)
Note that tags ARE included after the "was", but "Re:" is NOT, nor is
[CONLANG].
==Acronyms==
List of acronyms specific to the Conlang Mailing List:
* AFMCL - "As for my conlang.."
** AFMOCL - "As for my own conlang"
* ANADEW - "A natlang's already dunnit, except worse"
* ANADEWism - Something you thought was unique, but ANADEW
* IML - "in my 'lect" (dialect or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiolect
idiolect], depending on context)
* LCC - the [http://conference.conlang.org Language Creation Conference]
* LCS - the [http://conlang.org Language Creation Society]
* NCNC - "No cross, no crown". In the context of the list, "don't discuss
religion or politics"
([http://recycledknowledge.blogspot.com/2006/05/no-cross-no-crown.html not its
more general meaning]).
* NLF2DWS or NLWS - Non-linear [fully 2-dimensional] writing system
* YAEPT (the original acronym) - Yet Another English Pronunciation Thread
** YADPT ... Dutch Pronunciation ...
** YAGPT ... German Pronunciation ...
** YAEGT ... English Grammar ...
** YAEUT ... English Usage ...
** general pattern: YA(Language)(Topic)T
Acronyms not on this list might be in general usage: try
[http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aafaict Google's define:] or
[http://www.acronymfinder.com/ Acronym Finder].
==Other conlang-specific vocabulary==
>From [http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/Conlang%20Dictionary/ here] and
[http://arthaey.mine.nu/~arthaey/conlang/faq.html here]. See also [[Conlang
terminology]].
con__
* constructed __ (generally a contraction): conlang, conworld, conhistory,
conculture, ...
__lang
* a language characterised by ___ (generally a contraction): conlang, artlang,
auxlang, ...
[[artlang]]
# A language constructed for the beauty or fun of doing so. [From art(istic) +
lang(uage)]
# (See conlang) [From art(ificial) + lang(uage)]
[[auxlang]]
* A language constructed to replace or complement natlangs to facilitate
cross-linguistic communication. [From aux(iliary) + lang(uage)]
concultural [From con(structed) + cultur(e) + al]
* Adjective form of "conculture".
[[conculture]] [From con(structed) + culture]
* A fictional culture created as a backdrop to a conlang. See also "conworld".
[[conlang]] [From con(structed) + lang(uage)]
# n. A constructed language
# v. To construct a language
[[CONLANG]] (all caps), conlang-l, Conlang-L, or CONLANG-L
* A very active conlang mailing list hosted by brown.edu, and currently
operated by Henrik Theiling
[[conworld]] [From con(structed) + world]
* A fictional world created to host a conlang or conculture. See also
"conculture".
[[engelang]] /ˈendʒlæŋ/ [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
* A conlang that is designed to certain criteria, such that it is objectively
testable whether the criteria are met or not. This is different from claiming
that the criteria themselves are 'objective'. For example, the Lojban/Loglan
roots are designed to be maximally recognisable to the speakers of the
(numerically) largest languages in the world in proportion to the number of
speakers. It is not a matter of taste whether this criterion is met; it is
something that can be tested. (by John Cowan) [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
etabnannery /raːmnænəɹi/ (rare)
* The state of appearing entirely unpredictable, but, upon closer analysis,
failing at even being that. [From Etá̄bnann(i), a conlang by Tristan McLeay,
which was supposed to have an unpredictable orthography, but ended up just
having a confusing one. Damn people trying to make patterns everywhere. At
least it's a bugger to typeset!... errm... back to the derivation + -ery]
maggelity /məˈgɛlɪti/ (rare) [From Maggel, a conlang by Christophe
Grandsire which has a rarely predictable orthography]
# The state of being entirely unpredictable. (Tristan McLeay)
# The state of being regularly unpredictable, such as to horribly confuse
anyone unfamiliar with the language, lulling them into a full sense of
security before pointing out, cartoon-character-style, that the ground no
longer exists where they're standing. (Tristan McLeay and H. S. Teoh)
Maggel's Paradox (rare)
* Your radical ideas have already occurred to others. (Muke Tever)
[[natlang]] [From nat(ural) + lang(uage)]
# A natural language, i.e., one that naturally developed in the world, as
opposed to a conlang.
ObConlang (or ObCL)
* Just before something about conlanging in an otherwise off-topic post.
* From ob(ligatory) + conlang (i.e., an obligatory on-topic comment about
conlangs just so that the post isn't completely off-topic).
[[translation relay]]
* A game similar to Telephone or Chinese Whispers, wherein the participants
translate a passage one at a time, in serial, into their own languages - and
then marvel at how far from the original the translations have gotten.
==CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA)==
[[CXS]] is a version of X-SAMPA for use on the CONLANG mailing list. X-SAMPA
is a way to write the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) using normal
plain-ASCII text that everyone can read.
* [http://www.theiling.de/ipa/ Theiling Online: Conlang X-Sampa (CXS)] -
includes CXS-to-IPA conversion chart
* [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Conlang/Appendix/CXS CXS at Wikibooks]
==Related lists==
The Auxlang list, mentioned above, is dedicated to international auxiliary
languages. Its archives and subscription interface are at
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/auxlang.html .
The list re...@calcifer.valdyas.org is dedicated to the planning and
conducting of [[conlang relay]]s, q.v.
==Resources==
* [http://www.arthaey.com/conlang/faq.html Arthaey's Conlang FAQ]
* [http://www.langmaker.com LangMaker] - repository of many conlang
"biographies"
* [http://wiki.frath.net Frath Wiki] - a similar site, and host of the
Conlang-L (wikified) FAQ
* [http://www.omniglot.com Omniglot] - which has information on more writing
systems than you thought could exist
[[Category:Conlanging culture]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
Messages in this topic (25)
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8. Siye: A Joke In the Market
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" mamercu...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:23 pm ((PDT))
A Siye exchange, heard at the market.
A girl at a stall is talking to her friend.
“um-tu elapunamsunam,
le-tu aleyeketuna:
'Lumeke-kem elaputumam,
pe-tu umletompusunaya.'
I-tu aleyekesuna:
'Le-tu lumeke-kem umpetomputunasum,
pe-tu lumepo-kem layumsa ilapuyammasu.'”
“So I'm giving the sales-pitch to this guy.
He said to me:
'Perhaps I could get a discount,
because I have sold myself to you.'
I said to him:
'If you've sold yourself to me at discount,
perhaps I can sell you to another girl for a profit.'”
um-tu elapunamsunam,
um-tu e-le-a-pu-nam-su-ne-a-am
person-DAT 3.IN-1-buy/sell.IMPFV-SG-INCEPTIVE-DIR.AWAY-IMPFV-POS.MOD-NFV
le-tu aleyeketuna:
le-tu a-le-ye-ke-tu-ne-a
1-DAT 3.IN.OBJ.FOC-1-speak.PFV-PAUC-DIR.TOWARDS-PFV-POS.MOD
'Lumeke-kem elaputumam,
lume-ke-kem e-le-a-pu-tu-me-a-am
money-PAUC-LOC 3.IN-1-buy/sell.IMPFV-SG-DIR.TOWARDS-IMPFV-POS.MOD-NFV
pe-tu umletompusunaya.'
pe-tu um-le-tom-pu-su-ne-a-ya
2-DAT PSEUDOREFLEXIVE-1-buy/sell.PFV-SG-DIR.AWAY-PFV-POS.MOD-CAUS
I-tu aleyekesuna:
i-tu a-le-ye-ke-su-ne-a
3.AN-DAT 3.IN.OBJ.FOC-speak.PFV-PAUC-DIR.AWAY-PFV-POS.MOD
'Le-tu lumeke-kem umpetomputunasum,
le-tu lume-ke-kem um-pe-tom-pu-tu-ne-a-sum
1-DAT money-PAUC-LOC
PSEUDOREFLEXIVE-2-buy/sell.PFV-SG-DIR.TOWARDS-PFV-POS.MOD-if
pe-tu lumepo-kem layumsa ilapuyammasu.'”
pe-tu lume-po-kem layumsa-0 i-le-a-pu-yam-me-a-su
2-DAT money-AUG-LOC foreign/other.woman-ABS
3.AN-1-buy/sell.IMPFV-ABILITATIVE-IMPFV-POS.MOD-then
Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Attending WorldCon?
Posted by: "David Peterson" deda...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:23 pm ((PDT))
If there are any conlangers attending WorldCon (or even if you're not attending
this year but generally do attend), we have a small listserv set up simply to
coordinate plans (e.g. meeting up, etc.). If you're interested, e-mail me
offlist and I'll add you.
David Peterson
LCS President
presid...@conlang.org
www.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Attending WorldCon?
Posted by: "John Erickson" john.erickson.so...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:48 pm ((PDT))
I wish I could go to Worldcon more often, but I can only manage it when it's
within a day's drive (from So Cal).
Messages in this topic (2)
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10a. Re: A new direction in loglangs?
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2012 5:33 am ((PDT))
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:58:56 -0600, Logan Kearsley <chronosur...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>One of the things that has always bugged me about Palno being based on
>predicate calculus is the awkwardity of adverb constructions. But just
>today I was reading an old article on classifying adverbs for
>machine-readable dictionaries, and they had predicate-calculus forms
>for describing the semantics of subject-focused, verb-modifying, and
>clause-modifying adverbs, and the listings for verb-modifying senses
>was extremely weird:
>
>[ VERB / ADVERB ](arg1,arg2,...)
>
>That does not look like proper predicate calculus to me, and then it
>suddenly dawned on me: the correct way to write it is
>
>ADVERB(VERB)(arg1,arg2,...)
>
>I.e., verb- (and some clause-) modifying adverbs are actually
>semantically equivalent to higher-order functions!
The first way I would think to handle these classes (in fact, what we do in
UNLWS) is as predicates whose argument is the Davidsonian event argument for
the verb (there's a word I've learned from And).
Perhaps I am ignorant of some important distinction between verb- and
clause-modifying adverbs. For instance, in your leading example
>E.g., given the sequence
>
>"Bob ball kick hard"
>
>How do you know if "hard" is a higher order function operating on
>"kick" before binding the arguments "Bob" and "ball", or if it's a
>first-order function operating on the result of "Bob ball kick"?
the binding of "Bob" and "kick" seems to me to commute semantically with the
whatevering of "hard". What semantic difference do you take to be present
between the two?
Alex
Messages in this topic (3)
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